We Won the Debate
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Bob FertikWant to meet our members? Click 'Join' above!
We - the broad progressive movement - won a huge victory today.
No, we didn't win the vote to reject Ohio's Electors - but we never thought we would.
Our side won the debate because we talked about the fundamental basis of Democracy: the right of everyone to vote, and the right to have every vote counted.
Republicans could not challenge our facts. So they viciously attacked our motives. If you missed Tom DeLay's closing argument, you must watch it. It was pure poison - like everything Tom DeLay says and does. We're counting the days until his theft of the Texas legislature puts him behind Texas bars - where it won't be "Camp Cupcake."
But our champions did not wither under withering fire. They stood their ground. They stood tall.
What now?
First, Ohio is not over. There are two cases still in the courts. They raise crucial substantive questions that go to the heart of whether Ohio's election was fair or fraudulent. We will continue to track these cases, to make sure justice is done.
Second, Election Reform is not over. Every Democrat - and even a few Republicans - emphasized the voting problems that need to be fixed. If Republicans block action on basic reforms like paper trails, they will confront millions of very angry voters.
Third, Bush's "legitimacy" is not over. Millions of Americans know that he certainly stole Florida in 2000, and possibly stole Ohio in 2004. The dark cloud over Bush's head will not be lifted until the questions raised in the Conyers Report are answered. As long as Ken Blackwell refuses to answer those questions, Bush's second term will be as illegitimate as his first.
Finally, the pro-Democracy movement is not over. We fought for this debate against infinite odds, and we got the debate we demanded. We fought against the fear of Democratic leaders and the rage of Republican leaders, but they could not silence us or repudiate our cause. Our champions have stepped forward, and we will work with them until we guarantee every American has the right to vote.
Let's thank the Democrats who fought with us for Democracy.
- Rep. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones
- Senator Barbara Boxer
- Rep. John Conyers
- Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr.
- Rep. Corrine Brown
- Rep. Julia Carson
- Rep. Bill Clay
- Rep. James Clyburn
- Rep. Danny Davis
- Rep. Lane Evans
- Rep. Sam Farr
- Rep. Bob Filner
- Rep. Raul Grijalva
- Rep. Alcee Hastings
- Rep. Maurice Hinchey
- Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee
- Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson
- Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick
- Rep. Dennis Kucinich
- Rep. Barbara Lee
- Rep. John Lewis
- Rep. Ed Markey
- Rep. Cynthia McKinney
- Rep. John Olver
- Rep. Major Owens
- Rep. Frank Pallone
- Rep. Donald Payne
- Rep. Jan Schakowsky
- Rep. Bennie Thompson
- Rep. Maxine Waters
- Rep. Diane Watson
- Rep. Lynn Woolsey
- The Democratic staff of the House Judiciary Committee
Let's thank the Patriots who took the fight to the streets, the courts, and the blogosphere:
- Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman of FreePress.org
- Susan Truitt, Bill & Ruth Moss, Katrina Sumner, and many Ohio recount activists
- David Cobb of the Green Party
- Attorneys Cliff Arnebeck, John Bonifaz, and many volunteer lawyers
- Researchers Steve Rosenfeld, Richard Hayes Phillips, Steve Freeman, Ron Baiman, Tim Lohrentz, Werner Lange,
- Bloggers Ray Beckerman, Ben Greenberg, Noah Diamond, John Byrne, Glenn Sanders, Will Pitt, Newsclip Autopsy, Nashua Advocate, Georgia10, Bush Eye
- Rev. Jesse Jackson of RainbowPush.org
- David Lytel of ReDefeatBush.com
- Progressive Democrats of America and United Progressives for Democracy
- Thousands of activists in dozens of states
Let's remember those who spoke up for election reform, even if they didn't vote with us:
- Senator Hillary Clinton
- Senator Chris Dodd
- Senator Dick Durbin
- Senator Frank Lautenberg
- Senator Debbie Stabenow
Let's congratulate ourselves for fighting all the way to the end.
Let's have counter-inaugural protests across the country on January 20.
And let's meet in Washington DC with Progressive Democrats of America on January 21-23 to plan a progressive revolution in the months and years to come.
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Comments
There are 33 (32?) democrats in the House
who are worthy of re-election. IMO, the rest of them need to brush up on the Constitution. They expect our votes, but will not vote for us.
So far as I know, there is only one democrat in the Senate worthy of our progressive votes.
At least the People were heard this time. Many thanks to those democrats who take their oaths of office seriously and who know that without a fair vote and the support of those who they represent, they wouldn't be where they are.
*edit*
We have lost a democrat from the tally. This vote should have ended a while ago. What's going on, here? Are democrats being muscled?
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
31 now
Spirituality exists without organized religion
brian@takebackamerica.us
Draft Boxer 08 movement launched
The Boxer Rebellion has begun. An interest group has formed to support Sen. Boxer, the Boxer Rebellion, as well as promote Sen. Boxer's candidacy for the White House.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoxerRebellion/
The Boxer Rebellion wants you!
It is INDEED a victory.....right now at the BCC press....
conference they are discussing IRV Instant Run off voting. Rep, Jesse Jackson Jr, is taking the lead. HOORAY!! Fight on!
Spirituality exists without organized religion
brian@takebackamerica.us
A victory? We have different definitions of victory...
I understand that this was never about winning the election. I understand that this was solely about ensuring that every vote counts and raising objections when that absolute minimum standard is not enforced.
But to be going around calling this a victory and applauding what happened? That's like getting the daylights beaten out of you by the school bully, your milk money stolen and your homework torn up, and you stand there and explain about how you still have your principles.
The 2000 election was stolen. That's a given. And now, four years later, almost to the letter the exact same stunts get pulled (voter intimidation, vote tampering, etc.) and because the Democratic Party was able (hold on!) to get ONE senator to raise an objection (at the last minute) everyone's running around like this is something to celebrate?
No. This is appalling.
I'm surprised the Republicans made a fuss at all.
When 2008 rolls around, assuming we still are allowed to vote, I will be astonished if any substantial improvements have been made to the electoral process.
I think that the Democrats ought to take a deep breath and admit a few things:
1. This election may or may not have been stolen. That's irrelevant.
2. The relevant thing is that the legitimacy of the election cannot be guaranteed because of the paperless ballots.
3. Some realists are making noises about the 2006 election cycle. Let's see. Nov. 2006 - Jan. 2004 = a little less than two years. C'mon. There are government workers in this group somewhere. Honestly, do you think anything will get done in 22 months? How long has it taken to do a single thing about 9/11?
4. All this energy and drive and so forth about the Electoral Votes. God help us all. That had better be the opening salvo if the Democrats expect to win anything in 2006.
5. And what's happened to the leadership of the Democratic Party? Are they braindead? When it became obvious (a few hours before the fact) that Boxer was going to get the ball rolling, where was the solidarity? It's like a bunch of weaklings going up against the school bully (to use the analogy again.) Instead of all going against him at once, the Democrats send one person out at a time.
Yes, it is a victory
the republicans who have consistently refused to allow democrats to debate issues - even those as important as the bedrock of democracy, as this is - on the Floor, have been forced to allow for open, public democratic debate. In that sense, it is a victory.
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
And.....
The lawsuitsw in Ohio are still underway, there yet may be proof of fraud which will further prove the point that was made today.
Spirituality exists without organized religion
brian@takebackamerica.us
It also revived the trust of minorities
They were dismissed in 2000. At least some people in our party learned something in the past four years. You simply cannot dismiss minority votes and expect minorities to stay loyal to you. It doesn't work that way.
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
I wouldn't call it a large v
I wouldn't call it a large victory, but it did allow us to see who is really going to fight the good fight. That alone maybe the best thing to come out of this election. I would suggest that we all start now to find real leaders to replace those whose only priorty is themselves.
Posted the following at DU; Interested in knowing..
...if you are going to host a forum specifically focused on 'election fraud (ongoing) investigations & reform'.
Here's the link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add...
I am eager to see as much organization and coordination as possible for obvious reasons.
Thank you.
Woohoo!!!
These people are the great and true patriots of our time!!! Okay, it's starting small, but this can start the snowball rolling and get it to grow into an avalanche to make a huge impact eventually....WOW, you have to admit this is a huge improvement over 2000 when not 1 senator would stand up.....WOW, this is totally awesome -- thank you to everyone who got the ball rolling!!!!!!! And Hillary is totally eloquent as usual -- click on her name -- wow, you go democrats!! we have to start somewhere -- it gives a hope that it doesn't have to take violent revolution to bring about change in this country. I am a pacifist and do not advocate violence ever, but we can't let the fascist forces totally circumvent democracy. So though this seems small, I believe it is HUGE -- the consequences can be huge....
Bring down the wall of ignorance
Just like in Berlin, little by little we will bring down the wall of ignorance. Here is another reason to join the "Turn Your Back On Bush" people in Washington on January 20. We are winning the fight, please join us.
Suffragette
http://www.turnyourbackonbush.org
-----------------------------------------
I give you Micheal Moore's letter the day after Boxer and Tubbs Jones' victory:
January 7, 2005
Dear Friends,
Something historic happened yesterday. For the first time since 1877 a member of the House and a member of the Senate stood up together to object to the outcome of a presidential election.
This is the first step on a necessary road toward making sure that everyone is allowed to vote and that every vote is counted (something we did not see in 2000 or 2004) so the next time around ALL of us can be confident, when the election results come in, that they reflect the will of the people, not the whim of mechanical error and human obstruction.
Unlike 2000, when the black members of Congress were told to sit down and shut up, this time a senator had the courage to stand with them, as the law requires, to force Congress to go back to their separate chambers to discuss and debate the issues surrounding the vote count. Senator Barbara Boxer rose to the occasion and stood with Ohio Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones and 29 other Representatives "to cast the light of truth on a flawed system which must be fixed now." The ensuing debate, at times, became a debate over me and all of you and the fact that we would dare make the attempt to protect our democracy.
I was blown away when Representative Maxine Waters took to the floor and said, "Mr. Speaker and members, I dedicate my objection to Ohio's electoral votes to Mr. Michael Moore, the producer of the documentary '9/11' and I thank him for educating the world on the threats to our democracy and the proceedings of this house on the acceptance of the electoral college votes for the 2000 presidential election."
I am honored to the point of embarrassment because it is Maxine Waters who deserves thanks for defending our most basic right, not once, but twice.
Coming out of the gates like this in the very first week of session sent a strong message that we are not going to be pushed around. If the Republicans think the next four years are going to be a cakewalk, they've got another thing coming. With Michigan Representative John Conyers leading the charge, we showed them something not seen in over 120 years. And we're just getting started!
Congratulations to the tens of thousands of you who called, faxed, and e-mailed Barbara Boxer and other senators. You have shown the world, with the strength of your convictions, that the movement toward a truly representative democracy will not be stopped in its tracks. Yesterday's actions will be marked by history books as a turning point for the electoral process and for a Democratic Party that has for too long sat back and taken it on the chin.
Your voices have echoed all the way up to the hallowed halls of Congress and for that, you deserve thanks more than anyone.
Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.michaelmoore.com
P.S. If you want to see portions of what took place, check out the video clips and transcripts on the website.
Yes, that's quite the victory
After all the hoopla, everything is the same. The election is certified and a couple congress-people get themselves labeled as wingnuts. It's a good thing I don't live in Sen Boxer's district as there's not a chance I would vote for her now.
Everything is not the same --
Everything is not the same -- two Democratic representatives have shown that they have courage. They are only viewed as "wingnuts" by those apathetic voters from both parties, like youself, who would like the Democratic party to "just get ovet it."
For your information, we will not get over it until the system is repaired, and the Constitution has been restored as the true law of the land.
Senator Boxer is a HERO and....
In case you din't know it, she received the third highest vote total of ANY politician on 2004 behind only Bush and Kerry. Thank God she is my Senator.
Spirituality exists without organized religion
brian@takebackamerica.us
You don't get it do you?
Everything is not the same. Most of this country never heard of what what being talked about in that debate, now they have. The foundation for committing to election reform has been laid. Lawsuits have been filed to start investigations into the guilty.
Are you an american_hero in the comic book sense, or in non-fiction where true action happens in small discrete steps? Honestly, we can't afford to wait for a superheroic event at the last minute.
It's a good thing you don't live in her district, because you'd stick out like turd a punchbowl, being the republican that you are.
a victory.... a SHAME for the democrats !!!
WHAT? we speak of victory when ONLY ONE democrat senator is standing for all ?
Where is the democracy when your own camp doesn't even fight for the ones that ( try to) vote for them??? Where are these senators when we need them? They just hide behind their OWN GREEDY interests and have NO COURAGE to fight for a better democracy in this country.
I'm ashamed to be democrat today - I'm ashamed to be democrat because you are even worse than the republicans - you want our vote BUT you give up too easily even when it's obvious that this election was another moquery of democracy, like in 2000.
Bravo Senator Boxer and all the representatives who fight for OUR RIGHTS, and for the others : SHAME ON YOU !!!
Hey dude,
Can you check out the thread entitled 'PRP - People's Reform Party: An Average Persons Manifesto for the 21st Century'. I would be interested in your input.
salut les ptis loups
Here we are The Crime has officialy been voted at america's biggest houses and assemblies, but this time you (we) have prooves. All of this made me realise that america is the last place in the world where you can apply or even find democracy at these difficult times, but this was only a battle among so many others ... Hope is there, americans have fought for democracy in the past giving their life to it, now you can say that democracy had never ruled your country before and maybe one day it will but if only you knew all the ways of the republicans you might have fought on the same line ... this is sure to notice for next battle. Life is a jungle ! You can only use every ways and manners your society let you to win an election. Fact is that you gentle democrats lost against evil republicans !!! why is it that fundamentals of democratic vote is so simple and an election in america is so complicated and confused ? The reason is that Democracy never ruled america anyhow, just because secretly american politics never beleived in Democracy, your society (and modern world) relies on secret and dark rules. But Democracy is something you can't run away democracy will be like a tsunami from now ! You know the whole world have watched your election and the facts in ohio and elsewhere, everybody knows from now, you can't go back ! you d better stop the war and go home.
A long and difficult battle is on now, rep have full administrative power, but democrats have the glory, let the future reverse evil into freedom. You can do it and even if it looks difficult you have thousand of ways to legaly and peacefully fight to destruct this gross misfunction in modern society, may the world look better in a couple years thank you in advance.
Boxer was A.W.O.L. in 2000
It's totally shameful for anyone to describe Senator Barbara Boxer a hero for objecting to the flawed Ohio 2004 vote count. What happened in Ohio n 2004 is a sad continuaton of Bush's theft f the 2000 election in Florida. It's very imortant fo people to remember that Boxer and the rest of her do nothing Senate democratic colleagues did nothing to stop Bush's theft of the 2000 election. Unlike Kerry in 2004,in 2000 Al Gore was clearly the people's choice because he won both the popular vote and the electoral college vote because the truth will always be that Al Gore got the most votes in Florida. Since I used to live in Florida, I know that Florida law clearly required that the uncounted Florida votes be counted. While Al Gore fought alone to have the uncounted Florida votes counted in 2000, Boxer and her dem colleauges hid in their ivory Washington towers. I think Senator Boxer needs to be held accountable for this terrible hypocrisy. Our country is now suffering terribly and needlessly because of the failure of Senator Boxer and her Senate democratic colleauges to defend our democracy in 2000 by violating their oath of office which specfically requires them to defend our country fro enemies from within which is what the Bush 2000 coup clearly was.
Gore asked Senators/ Reps not to object
Boxer's reasons for not objecting to the 2000 election was that Al Gore specifically asked Senators and Representatives not to object in Congress. She said, in hindsight, she should have ignored Gore's request, and gone ahead and objected anyway. Boxer said she was sorry she didn't.
Al Gore was primarily responsible for the refusal of Florida being contested in Congress. The Senators and Representatives that did not stand up do have some responsibility, but not the primary responsibilty on this. Al Gore is primarily responsible for the lack of Senate protest in 2000.
The Boxer Rebellion wants you!
Boxer apologized for that err
Boxer apologized for that error of judgement in 2000 during her speech on Jan 6, and acknowledged her lack of support. That shows true character and a willingness to correct a wrong. For that, I not only support her whole-heartedly, I commend her heroism.
Al Gore is a charter member o
Al Gore is a charter member of the DLC, and not fit to represent the Democratic Party. He has had his day in the sun, and he did not meet the test.
Boxer wrong to blame Gore
Its factually inaccurate for Senator Boxer to blame Al Gore for her failure to stop Bush from stealing the 2000 election. The truth is, Al Gore never asked Senate democrats to not object to the flawed Florida vote count. In a magazine interview since the stolen 2000 election, Al Gore publically said that he supported the efforts of the Congressional black caucus to object to the flawed Florida vote count. Furthermore, it was none other than Senator John Kerry along with Senator Joe Biden who very emphatically stated on "Meet the Press" in January 2001 that Al Gore never made any such request to Senate democrats to not object to the flawed Florida vote count. Boxers shameful effort to falsely blame Al Gore for her failure to act in 2000 follows in the footsteps of crime victims being wrongly blamed for the behavior of the crimminals who committed the crime. Unlike Kerry in 2004, Al Gore was clearly the people's choice in 2000. He carried the democratic base vote in far bigger percentages than the DLC's 2004 sacrificial lamb Kerry because he made the issues of the democratic party base the focus of his campaign whie the DLC's sacrificial lamb Kerry was too busy impersonating republicans. It was the DLC who publically objected to Al Gore's terrific campaign slogan, "we're for the people and they're for the powerful". The DLC's silence on Bush's theft of the 2000 election from Al Gore has been deafening. In addition, the democratic party base in Florida where the 2000 election was stolen gave Kerry the same dissing for ignoring Bush's theft of the 2000 election in Florida that it gave the DLC's 2002 candidate for Florida Governor Bill McBride when he refused to hold Jeb Bush accountable for stealing the 2000 Presidential election for his brother in Florida. The truth will always be that Senator Boxer and her Senate democratic coleagues did nothing to defend our right to vote when it really mattered in 2000. Her after the fact photo op in 2004 will never make up for her failure to act in 2000 either.
Your arguments are passionate
Your arguments are passionate, and hold some measure of truth. The fact remains that most of us, on this board in any event, admire Barbara Boxer, and hold little regard for Al Gore, or the DLC.
BTW, I noticed that you are an "Independent." Does that mean that you sometimes vote Republican? If so, your hatred of Boxer holds even less water than your support of Gore.
I personally remember whan Gore made request
You are not accurate. I personally remember Gore making this request of those in Congress. I was very involved in the whole discussion of the Florida mess in 2000 online as it was happening, and I was very disappointed with this development.
I understand this is inconvenient for a Gore supporter, but Gore was the reason nobody fought to contest the election in Congress.
The Boxer Rebellion wants you!
No covering up the ugly truth about 2000
In response to Bill Harding's reply to my post, there's no covering up the ugly truth about the stolen 2000 election. Before the leadership of the democratic party refused to stop Bush's theft of the 2000 election, I was a staunch democrat. I volunteered on many democratic camaigns including many democratic campaigns when I lived in Florida. I know first hand what happened in Florida in 2000 and I won't be satisfied until the Bush election stealers go to jail for treason. Because of the democratic party leadership's refusal to defend our democratic form of government by stopping Bush's theft of the 2000 election in Florida, I changed my registration to independent. I refuse to belong to a political party that won't defend our democratic form of government that every previous generation of americans has fought and died for. By betraying Al Gore and refusing to defend our democratic form of government in 2000, the current lreadership of the democratic party has betrayed the very founding of the DNC that took place in the aftermath of the stolen 1824 election in which another idiot son of a 1 term President, John Quincy Adams stole Andrew Jackson's victory by also thwarting the will of the people. The leadership of the democratic party in 1824 was so outraged by Adams theft of the election that they organized at the national level by forming the DNC and they strongly supported Andrew Jackson and together they beat the crap out of John Quincy Adams in 1828. They constantly reminded the voters of Adams theft of the 1824 election. This is what established the democratic party as the party of the people. If only the current leadership of the democratic party felt so strongly about defending our democratic form of government, our contry would't now be in the terrible mess that it's in. Senator Boxer's 2004 Ohio photo op and her false blaming of Al Gore in order to cover up for her failure to act in 2000 won't change her terrible hypocricy that our country will spend decades paying for. Kerry's don't fight back against the Bush election stealers sacrificial lamb 2004 campaign combined with the democratic party leadership's determination to abandon the democratic party base and only impersonate republcans makes me all the more confident that I made the right decision in changing my registration. I want nothing to do with the election stealing republicans or their republican impersonating enablers that sadly have hijacked the democratic party away from the people. I held my nose very tightly when I voted for Kerry in 2004 but I think it's vital that the democratic majority stay united. Our country is paying a terrible price for Nader's division of the democratic majority in 2000 which he based on total lies about Al Gore which made it possible for Bush to be ableto get close enough in Florida to have his brother steal the election for him. Hey Bill, you sounded like you voted for Nader in 2000. A vote for Nader was a vote for Bush.
Nope, I have never sat out an
Nope, I have never sat out an election, nor voted anything but Democratic over the past 35 years. To me the DLC is ruining our party, but rather than leave the Democratic Party, I will fight for returning it to its base and its roots. Gore helped found the DLC, and he is off of my list, unless he somehow wins the nomination again. Then I might need to "hold my nose."
Rebelling Boxer is wrong
Sorry Rebelling Boxer but you're flat out wrong. None other than Senator's Kerry and Biden have said publicaly that Al Gore never asked Senate dems to not object to the flawed Florida vote count. Are you callig Kerry and Biden liars? Please don't tell me about Florida. Unlike you, I used to live in Florida and I know the laws the Bush election stealers deliberately broke in order to thwart the will of the people and the disputed territory extremely well. Al Gore spent 36 days fighting to have the uncounted Florida votes couted as Florida law clearly required. Were you hiding in the same cushy, ivory Washington tower that Boxer and the rest of her do nothing Senate dem coleauges were hiding in in violation of their oath of office? Your atitiude to blame the victim of the stolen election Al Gore for the crimes of the Bush election stealers and the failure of the democratic enablers like Boxer to act to stop the election theft is why democracy in America is dead. Good thing you don't live in Ukraine. As I've said previously, there's no covering up the ugly truth about the stolen 2000 election. Sorry it makes your Boxer look bad but the truth is the truth and it always has a way of getting out.
Then simply put Biden and Kerry are liars...
which should surprise no one. Al Gore did indeed ask the Senators NOT to contest the vote count, you see he would have had to cast the tie vote in a 50 50 Senate and he was unwilling to be the deciding vote in his own election.
While he did support the Congress speaking out he personally pleaded with the Senate NOT to intercede. Those are just the facts from his own mouth. Sorry dude.
PS...me thinks you are trolling, and if nothing else you are walking on very thin ice.
Spirituality exists without organized religion
brian@takebackamerica.us
Biden's has been lying his whole career
Remember, Biden's Presidential ambitions ended when he was caught plagiarizing in his speeches. That was the second time for him for being caught for plagiarism. He was caught for it in law school, too. I've never been happy with the way he went after Anita Hill, and he embarrased himself the other day with Gonzales, too. If Biden was from a bigger state than Delaware, Biden would have been challenged by a higher quality Dem replacement in the primaries.
Kerry's opinion on 2000 is well known with his "crying in your teacups" quote in reference to Democrats in Florida in 2000.
The Boxer Rebellion wants you!
winning ways
You never change beautifull winning ways ! How did the rep win in 2000 if numerously there were more ballots for Al Gore in 2000 in Florida ? Fact is these ways have been spreaded all around the united states in 2004 and i think this time the crime was bigger with several type of fraud wich may even have increased popular vote more than 3 millions ( or 5 or 10 ), it s easy when voting machine are not people's machine but private rep's machine with no paper trail. Reality is just so far from what we beleive we don't even want to think about these casualities. Another thing is that you can't always blame one candidate or few people when you realise how wrong the system works, i beleive the first one to blame is the entire american people for not willing a democracy as it intends (nor like in Ukraine) People in your country keep on being divided, automatically so why ? Because of desinformation, because of corruption, because of your society's malfunction. When i look in any rep blog i can't see any present blog talking about whats happenning everyday (maybe i didnt find one you could give me one rep blog to see what they think about the election) i think the rep voters don't give a shit to what's happenning they just feel the winning effect and sure don't want to learn all of this ...
Stop by
Story will say like another one in the past bush made a coup d'etat by stealing the presidency to the american in 2000 and stole the senat in 2004 and named judges in the biggest courts and placed his army all around the earth and played with all the new technologies of war, spent all the munitions Clinton made in order to built brand new ones to install a war economy over your country and to manipulate every single inch of economy , to manipulate the people by sending the youngest ones in war battles by teaching the poorest ones fake History and fake religious thoughts and all of this in the name of GOD ... please
Apologists for Boxer nd do nothing dems are shameful
The apologists in this blog who are falsely attacking the rightful winner of the 2000 election Al Gore in order to apologize for the failure of Senator Boxer and her fellow do nothing Senate dems who failed to stop Bush's theft of the 2000 election are shamefully trying to re-write history that doesn't siut themlike the former Soviet Union used to re=write history that didn't suit its leadership in order to get Boxer and her do nothing colleagues of the hook for doing nothing in 2000 to defend our democracy. No amount of such blatantly false claims will ever change the ugly truth about the stolen 2000 election and the dem leaderships failure to act. The non nazis in the German parliment refused to stop Hitler when they had the chance in the early 1930s and what a terrible price was paid for their failure to act. These are the footsteps that Boxer and her do nothing dem colleagues have followed in. Al Gore spent 36 days fighting to have the uncounted Florida votes counted while Boxer and her do nothing colleagues did nothing. Boxer's 2004 Ohio phto op won't change this ugly truth. The attitude of these Boxer apoplogists in this blog is why democacy in America is truly dead and their efforts are nly serving to let the Bsh election stealers off the hook for the crimes they've committed against our country.
I love Gore to death
and I wish he had been our president, but I have to say this: He said something to one of our black legislators as she stood up and said and 'I don't care that I don't have a senator's signature,' that was rude and made light of the whole thing. His remark 'Well, the rules do care' struck me as being rude/obnoxious (and somewhat turncoat...like he didn't want them to be standing up).
Now, I realize that he was probably following DLC orders, and I do respect him for breaking with them and joining up with Dean to form a grassroots movement - but I'll never forget his response to that Black Caucus member.
Just as I can respect Gore for breaking with what the DLC wanted, I am also aware that what Boxer did couldn't have charmed the DLC, either. Fact is, that anytime a democrat stands and shows some backbone/respect for his/her oath of office, democrats are going to praise that democrat and send their appreciation to them.
Last week, it was Boxer. We're hoping that in the weeks to come, we'll have a group of heroes to thank.
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
Revisionist history
What you remember about the 2000 mess in Florida and what actually happened don't have a whole lot in common. Looks like revisionist history. I'm sorry that what actually happened in Florida in 2000 has you so desperate to re-write history. Everyone in here saw F9/11. That was Al Gore that was captured on that Senate podium ruling Waters and Co., etc. out of order. It was Al Gore that requested Senators not to contest the 2000 election. It's clear that Boxer's stand for Americans a few days ago has you in such a state of fear that your planes are dashed that you are willing to say anything to smear Boxer to promote your own agenda. You are doing just that. What you are claiming has no basis in reality.
The Boxer Rebellion wants you!
I suspect you are one of two things.....
A Donnie Fowler fan, ... or more likely a Republican troll, how long have you been a member on this board? Oh, just signed up?.....like I was saying!
Spirituality exists without organized religion
brian@takebackamerica.us
Boxer apologists using 1984 doublespeak
It's pretty clear that the Boxer apologists in this thread are using 1984 doublespeak to falsely attack Al Gore in order to get Boxer and the do nothing dems off the hook. Sorry rebelling boxer from Oregon but unlike you I've lived in Florida and volnteered on many democratic campaigns there. I was actually born in Florida. I've now moved out of Florida. It's your totally false claims that don't match the actual evidence of what really happened in Florida. You've never lived in Florida so don't tellme about what really appened there because you obviously don't have a clue. In addition, Michael Moore was also 4 years too late like Boxer. No one should forget that Moore spent 2000 helping Ralph Nader siphon off crucial Al Gore votes that made Bush's theft of the 2000 election possible in the first place. Moore has used Bush's theft of the 2000 election to become a multi-mllionaire. I think that's disgusting. Moore made no effort to document the numerous Florida election laws that the Bush election stealers deliberately broke in order to thwart the will of the people and steal the 2000 election nor did he make any mention of the 36 days Al Gore spent fighting to have all of the uncounted Florida votes counted as Florida law clearly required. Its clear that the Boxer apologists in this thread were also in hiding when Al Gore fought to have the uncounted Florida votes counted. The behavior of these Boxer apologists is shameful and disgusting and it won't change the ugly truth about the deah of democracy in America in Florida in 2000.
Be gone troll....we like people who are constructive NOT ...
destuctive
Spirituality exists without organized religion
brian@takebackamerica.us
Al Gore asked Senators not to contest election
I'm sorry you are in denial over that clear fact. A person this deeply in denial over basic facts will not be much help to any progressive campaigns.
The Boxer Rebellion wants you!
Rebelling boxer the republican troll
Sorry rebelling boxer but your effort to get Boxer and her do nothing dem colleagues off the hook for not stopping Bush's theft of the 2000 eection makes you the republican troll. For the record, Donnie Fowler is a long time supporter of Al Gore's. Rebelling boxer, your effort to falsely blame Al Gore in order to get your Boxer off the hook for doing nothing in 2000 only helps get the Bush election stealers off the hook for ending demcracy in American in 2000. You should be ashamed for helping the Bush electio stealers avoid accountablility for ending democracy in America in 2000. Your use of name calling instead of focusing on the solid evidence I've presented further exposes the weakness of your position.
and it's settled......you are a true DLC'r
Spirituality exists without organized religion
brian@takebackamerica.us
Donnie Fowler's chief fundraiser was just indicted
Felonies. The guy may be looking at hard time in prison. Fowler's campaign is done.
You aren't doing very well on either facts or choices you make.
As for the other stuff... sticks and stones, dude.
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The Boxer Rebellion wants you!
Ok folks - can we take a chill pill, already?
The person expressing respect for Boxer has a right to do that. If we never take the time to forward our respect to legislators like Boxer, they'll never stand up to the thugs, and we'll pass up the opportunity to remind other legislators who put them in office.
The person expressing respect for Gore has a right to do that. He deserves respect. He was respectable enough to serve as vice president of these United States for eight years and he did run for the presidency. Putting yourself under a microscope like that and opposing the steamroller which is George W. Bush is deserving of respect, is it not?
Express your thanks to the democrats who stood up, or don't. It's up to you. Let's not fill Bob's blog up with all these neener neener posts and start with the name calling, shall we not?
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
A role for everyone, and everyone for a role
Except for Zell, that is.
I'm not sure why simply existing on the board and promoting Sen. Boxer drew down the Wrath of Gore08. I like Al Gore. However, I'm not going to allow him to make inaccurate statements about Sen. Boxer, either. Gore made the decision to end his campaign when he did and not to contest the election in Congress. That's a well known fact that even appeared on film in F 9/11. Gore08 needs to deal with that fact.
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The Boxer Rebellion wants you!
I don't think Gore could actu
I don't think Gore could actually cast a vote when he presided over the protest of House members in 2000. As Vice President and Senate President, I think he could only vote in a tie. I could be wrong and I'm sure someone else knows if I am.
Voting Intent Tallied
Absolutely, Gore could only have voted to break a tie. When Gore told Senators not to join the House objection, he did so already knowing that the vote would be a tie, and that he would be put into the position of electing himself president. Knowing now, the extent of multiple threats to the world presented by the Bush Regime, I'm sure Al Gore would have chosen that road as the lesser of two evils. At the time however, annointing himself ruler seemed like a greater threat to his party and nation, so Gore choose instead to use his position to negotiate joint-party chairmanships of Federal Commishions (didn't last) and more.
I beleive with all my heart that Al Gore is a great man, with a brilliant mind and a huge heart. That heart may make the top of the political arena too much for Gore to handle, but if he tries again (and hopefully writes his own speeches and sets his own agenda), I would gladly take a few police beatings to help promote this man into the White House.
I agree with you Necco
No matter what the liberal and moderate factions of our party need to work together more than before!! While Sen. Boxer undoubtedly made herself my favorite for 2008, its still a long way off and we need to unify to try and win elections in 2006. I have had feelings of disgust with the Democratic leadership, but the plain fact of the matter is we've got to work together, liberals and moderates, because all our values are being destroyed. Leave the Democrat party and the Repugs definately win. Instead of name calling and arguing among ourselves we need to UNITE!!! Liberal or Moderate, it makes little difference to Rove/Bush/DeLay.
Unite.... yeah... Where is th
Unite.... yeah... Where is the democrat party when even our basic rights are jeopardized by their cowardice and lack of action ? What are their dark motives to let us down and just seems to care about their own agenda ? Something is definitely rotten in this kingdom, the head is completely separated from the basis ; they just don't care about us but still... they want our vote : what a sad paradox.
At least, Sen Boxer HAS DONE something, she has more guts than all of them who hide behind their personal interests.
I agree with you completely about Boxer
I agree with you about Senator Boxer and like I said she has earned a spot with me as the leader for my vote in the primaries of 08. She has shown that there are leaders in this party that do have guts. I thought about leaving the party too, but now I realize the best thing for us to do is to start mobilizing NOW to take back some seats in Congress in 06, so our party leaders won't be so scared to show guts when it doesn't get their asses kicked in the elections. Run away instead of trying to stand up and lead in the party, and the Repugs win from now on. BillHarding I would love to hear from you on this and where we can go to help the Democrats running for the House in 06 to raise money and support.