Obama Grants Amnesty to Torturers
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In response to the lawsuit by the ACLU and CCR, President Obama finally released the infamous torture memos. There were some redactions that will be pored over by bloggers.
But Obama announced that CIA torturers who relied on Justice Department lawyers will not be prosecuted. Worse, they will be defended by Obama's Justice Department in any lawsuits and, if they lose, we the taxpayers will pay the judgments.
Obama's statement said nothing about prosecuting the Justice Department lawyers who authorized torture, so we'll have to wait to learn more. Spanish prosecutors advised against prosecution in Spain, but Judge Garzon could ignore the advice. Presumably Holder pressured Spain, but he may have agreed to a U.S. prosecution instead.
Any decision on prosecution in the U.S. may have to wait for the long-overdue report on the lawyers by the Office of Professional Responsibility. According to the Pentagon Post,
The report may take months to be released because authorities are waiting for comment from some of the three lawyers and many of the issues are highly classified, a department lobbyist told lawmakers recently.
Obama tried to soften the outrage with rhetoric:
This is a time for reflection, not retribution.
But not for accountability or law enforcement.
I respect the strong views and emotions that these issues evoke. We have been through a dark and painful chapter in our history. But at a time of great challenges and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past.
Enforcing laws is not about "laying blame" - it's about enforcing laws. If laws against torture should not be enforced, why should any laws be enforced? Why should Bernie Madoff be prosecuted? Why not let all convicted murderers out of jail?
Our national greatness is embedded in America's ability to right its course in concert with our core values, and to move forward with confidence. That is why we must resist the forces that divide us, and instead come together on behalf of our common future.
How can we "come together" when government officials whose salaries we pay can break the law with impunity, including torturing people?
The United States is a nation of laws.
Not if those laws are willfully violated with impunity!
My Administration will always act in accordance with those laws,
Always? Then what about now??? "Those laws" do not only require you to stop torturing, they also require you to prosecute both the torturers and the lawyers who authorized it.
and with an unshakeable commitment to our ideals.
Yeah right.
The obvious response is to demand that Congress prohibit the use of any money to defend torturers or to pay for their judgments. Let's see if anyone in Congress has the guts to propose it.
Update 1: dday notes "indemnifying the CIA personnel who committed the torture because they were acting under what they believed to be a legal basis violates the Nuremberg principles."
Article 7. The official position of defendants, whether as Heads of State or responsible officials in Government Departments, shall not be considered as freeing them from responsibility or mitigating punishment.
Article 8. The fact that the Defendant acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior shall not free him from responsibility, but may be considered in mitigation of punishment if the Tribunal determines that justice so requires.
Update 2: I long ago realized the Busheviks regarded George Orwell's "1984" not as a warning, but as a manual. This is straight from "1984": after determining Abu Zubaydah was afraid of insects, they put him in a tiny box with ... insects.
"You would like to place Zubadayah in a cramped confinement box with an insect. You have informed us he has a fear of insects," the Bush White House said.
"As we understand it, no actually harmful insect will be placed in the box. Thus, though the introduction of an insect may produce trepidation in Zubaydah (which we discuss below), it certainly does not cause physical pain."
But, the memo cautioned, to comply with the law, the CIA "must inform him that the insects will not have a sting that would produce death or severe pain."
After going through several layers of Cheney-chosen bureaucrats and torturers, I have little doubt Zubaydah found himself face to face with a gigantic deadly tarantula.
Update 3: Glenn Greenwald:
Needless to say, I vehemently disagree with anyone -- including Obama -- who believes that prosecutions are unwarranted. These memos describe grotesque war crimes -- legalized by classic banality-of-evil criminals and ordered by pure criminals -- that must be prosecuted if the rule of law is to have any meaning. But the decision of whether to prosecute is not Obama's to make; ultimately, it is Holder's and/or a Special Prosectuor's. More importantly, Obama can only do so much by himself. The Obama administration should, on its own, initiate criminal proceedings, but the citizenry also has responsibilities here. These acts were carried out by our Government, and if we are really as repulsed by them as we claim, then the burden is on us to demand that something be done.
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Comments
We cannot WAIT!
"The report may take months to be released because authorities . . . . "
If there are no investigations and prosecutions into the war crimes committed by officials of the Bush Administration, then we set a precedent for the entire World. Any country at all (signatory to the Geneva Conventions and other International laws) could engage in a "war of aggression," at will; any country at all could engage in torture, renditions, "ghost detentions" and probably get away with it, citing the U.S. example, etc.
If these war crimes are not addressed, then, I believe, this will truly be the ultimate undoing of this country (as we once knew it, or thought we did).
Please note!
(Just tried to donate a little money -- got a large message about syntax, etc. -- tried twice, but could not get it to work.)
The next conservanazi republikan
president will make bu$h look like a chump if the crimes are prosecuted.
First it was the crook Nixon who got pardoned. Then, ronnie raygun got off with his "Iran-Contra" crimes. Next up was junior bu$h. Look how bad he was. If the Dems don't do anything, the next conservanazi president will destroy what democracy we have left. He will make bu$h look like a minor leaguer.
"When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis
Of course, either WE are a nation of laws or WE are not!
There is no greater legal precedence for us than our own Constitutional and national laws, which iterate, without equivocation, what we must do, in the event of "despots" engaging in the goals of destruction to our "ideals," hence, our country!
And the most crucial point of all this is: we must not and cannot allow heinous "war crimes," as a matter of legal and moral precedents, to be swept under the rug for future "despots" to enjoy and profit from.
Finally, reality is, we are currently in violation of all national/international laws for not having already commenced investigations/prosecutions of the Bush Administration officials!
Pres. Obama
Can only do so much... We the people have to help and we have to get Congress to act. But this is what we are up against. I want them punished as much or more than anyone else. But watch this video of... This is what the republicans are doing. This is the Joke and he is just like the ones on Fox and all the rest..
http://tinyurl.com/dxsvy4
They think it is a joke... to them it is nothing... even though they have been told it isn't. Christopher Hitchens was on MSNBC and tried to tell Joe that water boarding even though you knew it was just a trial, and he knew he could call it off, it still was terrible, it hurt and it felt like he was dying and still Joe laughed.
That's what we are dealing with. There are so many people who believe that.
Actually, I am begining to think that...
many of the House and Senate leadership(?)are complicit in this conspiracy to avoid investigation and prosecution. They are as guilty as those who did the actual torture.
That may be the reason why nothing is being done.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Been Quite Well Known....
....that pelosi was escorted to Abu Ghraib and witnessed a Torture Session{s}, indeed not only IS Congress Complicit but how many ?Journalists? Whom stayed silent while knowing, increasing their Complicity to the nth degree, for staying silent all the while knowing is the most egregious form of Complicity known. I find solace just holding the 8 page form from the High Commissioner of the UN
In charge of CAT3 Violations used IF reported albeit we never did a darn thing but knowing this IS an International Violation and if we do not do OUR job then we have the EU. Rummy, thanks to www.ccrjustice.org, on appeals they won:
1. France; charges of Torture.
(A. #43 rewrote TITLE 18 - CRIME AND CRIMINAL PUNISHMENT, Chapter 18 - WAR CRIMES, Section 2241, pgs 531 - 534 of US Code in '06 in essence Pardoning anyone in the CIA, WHIG et al and any 2nd cousin if you know what I mean of ANYTHING that as defined by the Nuremberg Principles would allow a trial @ the Hague to ensue, yet the PDD was not released until 20 July 2007, hmmmmm.
2. Germany; charge of War Crimes.
We must become a singular cohesive unit in order to assure that all or as many as humanly possible be charged and tried.
Ms. Rhoda Ozen
Media - lack of information
Yes- The corporate owned news media has failed us miserably.
It seems that they are among the powerful fat cats that run this country. A relative few huge wealthy Co's / persons control the US. That could - or has become dangerous.. Way too much power is concentrated in a very small minority.
Why were A I G and others allowed to get too big to fail ? Years ago- the Phone Co was broken up into ' baby bells ' because they got too big.
Since Reagan's deregulation of banks & Wall St - and pushed further along by Bush & Bush Sr .- we have NO rules and safe guards to protect us. The GOP removed those rules. It made them incredibly wealthy and greedy, and in many cases, unethical.
dianhow, when you post 6 times in quick succession...
you actually prevent anyone from adding or disagreeing to those posts(defeating your own purpose). Take it easy...the situation has been around for all the years since Nixon...it ain't going away overnight.
Take a deep breath and relax.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
War Crimes / ACT NOW
I think OBama is basically honest, but that he and / Holder do not want to push
this war crimes issue- since Obama has so much on his plate now, that it would be a huge distraction. However I disagree strongly. Obama took an oath to enforce our laws and constitution He MUST do so - even though it will surely be very messy.
Holder & D.O.J. need to act now - or will lose credibility.
Accountability
We MUST all rise up and DEMAND that Obama / Congress uphold the law of the land.
go to www.whitehouse.gov and demand that Bush / Cheney & Co are held
accountable for their actions. Are they ABOVE THE LAW ?
NO ONE IS ACCOUNTABLE.
The Democratic Party is not going to do a thing, I'm afraid.
Just tell them that if they don't prosecute, no contributions. They understand the "no money" thing. Laws, that's just bu$hit. Laws are only for selected enforcement. If you area working stiff, and enemy of the party in power, you obey laws. Rich and politically connnected.......... no worry.
WE got the best democracy money can buy. ;)
If the US is a nation of laws, how come the rich and powerful are exempt from those laws? So much for Justice and the American way.
"When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis
Obama / Dems
You are Correct.
We must all let Obama / Holder DOJ know no one is above the law.
Tell them at www.whitehouse.gov Its urgent that we act now. .
emotional response to idiot bush and his torture crap!!!
hey ...i know keith obermann wants the cia guys that actually employed this stuff to be tried....my take is quit 'f'ing around and grab that idiot bush with cheney and all these minions or the 'cabal' that basically approved and order this sh** right by the throat and haul their a** to court. BUSH AND THOSE OTHER IDIOTS ARE TRAITORS!!!!!! i mean how stupid are you people. that idiot bush did all this sh** in the name of the american people. and what they did was PROFIT by it. they made a ton of money. thats what this sh**s all about. the right-wingers will say ohhh 911 ohh geezz look out... we had to do everything we did to look out....thats bullsh**!!! thats like your kid tellin' you a story so he doesnt get in trouble. jesus, youve been hearing this crap and theres a very small minority thats still believes all that bullsh**! those idiot rightwingers still believe that saddam hussein was involved in the planning and the action of 911. they still believe that sh**!!. theyre morons, and will never accept the truth. well, all those involved in the conduct of the last 8yrs and thats 8yrs of lying through their teeth in order to profit and manipulate whats happened needs to be tried for treason and HUNG! and dont puss out and say ohh we cant do that... get convictions and run them right to the oak tree...and while theyre say ohh-ohh whoow baa-baa-baa wa-wa-wait!! while the noose is being fitted no last words just kick the chair. what this is, is right up these rightwingers "we're americans!" attitude.. its a perfect object lesson that if you do this sh** again...your gonna be hung!!! old west style!!! now that theyll understand!!!
Sleeping with dogs and ticks and fleas etc...
The way I see it is not that "they know not what they do" but more like "They do what they do and to hell with anyone who disagrees" "Laws? We don't need no stinking laws, man!" The Republicans have always been a bunch of nitwits, only more nit less wit...The hypocrisy is glaring...I think what worries them the very most is that once we start prosecuting them it will become a matter of putting Bush and Cheney in jail for life and then our "reputation" as a country will get harmed...instead of thinking "our reputation " as a country will actually STAND for something other than a bunch of lies and manipulators...Obama studied our Constitution, he SHOULD put it back to rights and step one would be getting those evil bastards to pay for their crimes. Like Cheney getting an apology from the guy whose face he almost blew off...ya know? *Sigh*.
War crimes Investigation / Obama
Obama / Holder must NOT sweep this under the rug. It is much too important.
It is Not about revenge. It's about the law of the land. We have been told that :
NO ONE is above the law.- Or are they ?
Bush / Cheney / Rumsfeld / Rove must testify under OATH .
The C.I.A. etc should not be prosecuted- the ones who ORDERED THIS
SHOULD BE. Otherwise our laws have NO meaning.
And- It WILL happen again - if no one is held accountable..
Cheney / Bush
Right The far right believes that Sadaam was part of 9 / 11 - since Bush / Cheney told them that. and they do not doubt their ' leaders' just like mIndless robots. Cheney's Halliburton made billions in Iraq - much for work never done .
Bush / Cheney lied us into Iraq with the Bring em on -war will be short- Iraq oil will pay- mushroom cloud - ALL B S. and Cheney hae the balls to criticize Obama for not keeping us safe- when he and Bush IGNORED a warning in Aug 2001- that BIn Laden was DETERMINED to hit inside the US. and McCain advisor / buddy CROOK Sen PHil Gramm ruined Enron workers with his " Enron loophole. Then Gramms wife made 900 K off that deal- as a LOBBYIST. How cozy ! SO Why is it that we seldom / never hear these facts on the corporate owned Media ?
cleaning up Washington
I'm a registered Republican and I was happy to sign this petition. The only thing that keeps the elected/appointed* officials honest is the fear that they will be voted out or that the new administration will turn on the lights. If the CIA isn't held accountable now, they never will be.
I'm disappointed about the spin on the tea parties. The horrible bailouts and theft from our treasury is criminal.. and it has to be reversed. I attended such a rally last year when 15 libertarians showed up to protest the economic policies. This year, it was Libertarians, Democrats, and Republicans and there were 1200 in attendance.
I believe in following the Constitution.. I think the last administration was criminal and we went to war for Haliburton profits.. The same bunch who like 3 strikes you are out because is keeps the for profit-prisons that Haliburton's subsidary builds.. full. I'm a fiscal conservative who believes that the money is better spent closer to home and not dictated from Washington.
If Obama lets these guys off, I won't be surprised, but terribly disappointed.
Democrats and Republicans have a lot more in common than we have differences. It is self-defeating to politicize every issue and demonize the opposition. Not only is it tiresome and saps positive energy, it isn't going to work. We have to get some honest moderates who support the Constitution that both sides can tolerate in office who aren't beholding to the banksters that are running this country.
the torture petition
I cannot sign the petition as worded. I strenuously disagree with any legislation which would prohibit the government from having to pay for the damages that any court might award to any victim who has been injured by torture authorized by the government. The group that drafted this petition apparently didn't think carefully about the wording. Paragraph #2, which would prohibit the government from paying judgments in favor of torture victims, would further victimize those who have been tortured. It would effectively prevent the victims from collecting any money damages whatsoever. Obviously, the CIA agents who tortured their prisoners would not have sufficient money to pay their prisoners. Similarly, the Bush lawyers who prepared the memos authorizing torture would not be required to pay judgments against them, because they would make themselves "judgment proof" by giving their assets to their spouses or children and then declaring bankruptcy, therefore preventing any justice to the prisoners who were victims of torture. The drafters of this petition apparently did not realize that paragraph #5, by abolishing sovereign immunity, would contradict their hope, in paragraph #2, to grant the government sovereign immunity in torture lawsuits. Peter Gale
Time to move forward
This petition is a waste of time. It is not about moving the country forward, it's about wallowing in the morass that was the Bush Administration, and seeking revenge and retribution so that some Democrats may feel morally superior.
President Obama campaigned on a message of hope and moving the country forward. This accomplishes neither of these things. It is my hope that President Obama will simply issue a blanket pardon to anyone who may have been involved and close the book on this sad episode in our history once and for all.
Investigating and trying the perps...
who while at the very top of our government is neither revenge nor retribution--most of us would call it justice.
We had a dictatorship in power for 8 years. I have to obey the laws, you have to obey the laws, we all have to obey the laws. BushCo simply did not. Cheney simply did not.
If people like these examples do not have to obey the laws, then neither do any of us. Call that the 'end of civilization' as we have known it.
If someone lights up in a bar today, they can be hauled off to jail and booked. Don't pay for traffic tickets? You get hauled off to jail.
There is nothing remotely like being morally superior in demanding that our leadership operate in a legal way.
Hmmm, what planet do you inhabit?
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Set goals high regarding punishing implementations of torture
or little will be done re-establishing our Constitution, habeas-corpus, America's honor, trust and even higher standards of mutual respect internationally. Investigations of torture having resulted in deaths of detainees place the urgency of truth most seriously on our Congress and Justice Department to responsibilities the Republicans can not then deny, avert, treat lightly or mock. This Change in how we conduct ourselves also depends on them.
If we aim seeking justice anywhere but at those in absolute control, the danger is in repeating the sham of Abu Graib victimizing those following military orders which came from our civilian rulers (who never served.) Americans tend to forget or never knew in 2000 we elected a President who, when governor of Texas, executed the record-breaking number of their condemned. We must demand Justice. How else can we really look forward but for once with accountability for this past as best we can? Now, that's freedom.