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Something isn't adding up

Submitted by googa1 on March 28, 2006 - 7:04am.

Something stinks in the Moussaoui trial. Moussaoui has been saying he is innocent since 9/11 and NOW he wants to "tell the truth"? I wonder if torture has anything to do with his singing. Can anyone tell me why the government arrested Moussaoui before 9/11? I've read it was immigration charges but don't we deport illegals? Just a quick search this morning and I learned that Moussaoui has ties to Nick Berg, who was beheaded in Iraq. Some say they were roommates, some say their paths only crossed - isn't that odd still? Can anyone point me to some interesting reading?

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According to both Bernie Ward and Ray Taliaferro last night...

Submitted by grinch (not verified) on March 28, 2006 - 11:09am.

Moussaoui has now admitted that he and another guy[Reed, the guy who gave himself a hotfoot--bombs in his shoes]were supposed to fly a 5th aircraft into the White House.

Seems that I remember that he was originally arrested by the FBI, but they took forever to get the job done. Bet you can find some interesting bits in the archives of the Chicago Tribune...go back to the date of arrest and before that. Wasn't Mousssoui taking flying lessons(puter)and wanted to learn to fly, but not to land a large aircraft? Thats how he surfaced.

A woman agent was in charge of Chicago at that time. She repeatedly tried to bring this guy to the attention of her people in Washington. They wanted no part of it. She ultimately was censured and her career is over. She refused to quit trying to bring this guy to someone's attention. Pretty complex happenings back then.

A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.

Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623

Moosesowi

Submitted by wahoo on March 28, 2006 - 12:33pm.

Submarine   USS Wahoo  ss238

Could he be the 'patsy' or diversion to the Sept 11th
Cheney run disaster?

Quite

Submitted by RDillon on March 29, 2006 - 2:04pm.

Possibly.

As you said googla

Submitted by dinamic on March 28, 2006 - 12:48pm.

Zacarias Moussaoui (born May 30, 1968) is a French terrorist of Moroccan descent involved in the conspiracy that resulted in the September 11, 2001 attacks. He was taken into custody by the Federal Bureau of Investigation on August 16, 2001 after attending a flight school in Eagan, Minnesota where an instructor expressed concerns about the abilities and motivations of his student. After the attacks unfolded, he was described as a possible "20th hijacker", though he maintained that he was uninvolved with that plan up until pleading guilty in April 2005 to charges brought against him. He is the only person in the United States to have been charged in connection with the September 11 attacks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui

A couple of things that don't add up...Moussaoui and Reed were both slightly retarded or at least not of average intelligence and both had some form of mental disorder/illness. Neither is the kind of person that the terrorist profile would ever pick to run any operation. I don't pretend to understand what their place in al-Quaeda was, but my guess is that they were dupes or want-a-bes.

I am not even sure that bin Laden orchestrated 9-11. I can't imagine who else it might have been, but that is not in my opinion a picture of him on the tape confessing to master minding it. Get a picture that you know is bin Laden and examine it next to that pic of "him" in the tape. Anyone with much of an eye can see that it is not the same face. I guarantee you that a face recognition program would say no match. So maybe the bushistas faked the bin Laden film but the rest is real. Maybe, but even the experts don't believe that Moussaoui was one of the hijackers, now. They say he could have known about the plot, but did not have any of the skills to be one of the pilots.

I think that he is bragging, hoping to be famous and get those 72 virgins. Instead of just spending the rest of his life in jail, as a forgotten loser.

.
Proud member of the reality based community.

Hey Goog

Submitted by wahoo on March 28, 2006 - 1:13pm.

Submarine   USS Wahoo  ss238

Chat tonight at Hoff

We can form our own research 'dept' and find out what really
happened on Sept 11th

We should start with Cheney first.....

Bin Laden Tape

Submitted by ami on March 28, 2006 - 1:16pm.

Independent translators of the tape say Osama bin Laden never confessed to being involved although he expressed great joy that it happened. As for other sponsors, rebellious members of the Saudi family was always my favorite. I find it hard to believe that the 911 bombers were not part of the Saudi air force since I don't think it's that easy to fly a plane into a building, particularly the Pentagon.

"War is a Racket" Brig. Gen. Smedley D. Butler

Wahoo, get your tin foil

Submitted by googa1 on March 28, 2006 - 8:37pm.

Wahoo, get your tin foil ready - I will be there tonight. Here is something to kick around:

Proof Bush was breaking FISA law BEFORE 9/11 < a href = "http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/moussaouiindictment.htm">Moussaoui indictment

skip down to #65.

Between on or about July 29 and August 2, 2001, in Norman, Oklahoma, ZACARIAS MOUSSAOUI made several telephone calls from public telephones to a number in Duesseldorf, Germany

Now, why was Bush tapping public phones BEFORE 9/11 and BEFORE they knew Moussaoui was "the 20th hijacker"?

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security

like it's some kind of federal program."

- George W. Bush in a debate in St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000

Damn good question Gloria

Submitted by dinamic on March 29, 2006 - 1:40pm.

Damn good question to keep in mind when they go on and on about "wire tappeing terrorists" and how we don't want terrorists tapped. When they say they only tap conversations beween terrorists, I ask how do they know who the terrorists are and if they do know it is only actual, real, terrorists they are tapping why not arrest them NOW or at least keep them under 24/7 surveillance?

Who do they think they are kidding? If you keep throwing out a big enough net you are sure to catch something worth keeping.

Proud member of the reality based community.

Awesome

Submitted by RDillon on March 29, 2006 - 2:06pm.

Gloria, I didn't know this. Great digging and great find. When did domestic spying really begin? We need to find out.

So much for the claim

Submitted by dinamic on March 29, 2006 - 5:49pm.

So much for the claim that Moussaoui is stightly retarded.

13. ZACARIAS MOUSSAOUI, a/k/a "Shaqil," a/k/a "Abu Khalid al Sahrawi," was born in France of Moroccan descent on May 30, 1968. Before 2001 he was a resident of the United Kingdom. MOUSSAOUI held a masters degree from Southbank University in the United Kingdom and traveled widely.

Proud member of the reality based community.

Bush graduated from Yale

Submitted by googa1 on March 29, 2006 - 9:40pm.

Bush graduated from Yale with a BA in history and has a masters in business from Harvard. Bush is still more than "slightly retarded" he is "wholly retarded" - or is it "holy retarded"? Graduation from college doesn't mean intelligence.

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security

like it's some kind of federal program."

- George W. Bush in a debate in St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000

Daddy

Submitted by RDillon on March 29, 2006 - 11:33pm.

Paid his way through. He just got drunk and snorted coke in college.

'the tales of tales'...

Submitted by Veritas2020 on March 28, 2006 - 9:46pm.

Bush White House doesn't seem to care about 'polls', 'the truth', 'right from wrong' and the status quo...

because they have been too busy 1999 2000 --plotting and planning the 'entire Iraq' debacle, utilizing 'terror' as the 'weapon of choice'.

Moussaui was arrested --prior 9-11 [on an immigration technicality'] --that had already surfaced months before..[9-11]...the CIA/FBI had to know that the 'hijackers'; terrorists were already here --and plotting this attack. [IMO; they let it happen]...

the Aug 11 --Presidential Daily Briefing --was probably a 'memo' that had [Geo Tenet's] name all over it; --but obviously it didn't fit the WHIG's plan...so it was scrapped --and re-worked.

It's very obvious that the Bush version doesn't add up with the 'pieces of the puzzle'; ---"THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE"...I hope Bush sleeps well at night....he may someday find himself in the 'Twilight Zone'..

Strange turnabout...

Submitted by blueink on March 30, 2006 - 6:45am.

Almost as though he's finally given up any hope of a fair trial (that is, he's faced reality), and has decided to float the biggest canard he can, just for the fun of it. Then again, perhaps the notion of his participating by hijacking even yet another aircraft with a target such as the White House had at some point been discussed (whether or not such had ever, in the end, been agreed to or assigned to him; who knows). If you're going to be railroaded; may as well (I suspect, to their way of thinking) appear to be the biggest, baddest terrorist ever.

By telling the truth and sealing his own fate...

Submitted by grinch (not verified) on March 30, 2006 - 6:54am.

the gentleman becomes a martyr under Koranic rules. He goes immediately and reaps a better life in the 'next' world. He becomes a folk hero.

A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.

Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623

I've read that MSK named

Submitted by googa1 on March 30, 2006 - 7:57am.

I've read that MSK named Moussousi as a hijacker after his arrest in Pakistan. Strange how Al-Qaeda is "on the run" but able to know what is going on in this country so well. MSK was no dummy, he named Moussousi as a hijacker because the government arrested him (before 9/11) and pointed blame to him after 9/11 - MSK just made the government happy by agreeing with it. Stupid, stupid Americans.

And the government tells of Moussousi's actions make no sense either. They say he was supposed to be a part of the 2nd wave of attacks on the West Coast. So by the time he would have hijacked a plane and slammed it into the White House (on the East Coast), there would be little fuel in the plane. Remember the jet fuel is what made all the buildings collapse at the WTC and the section of the Pentagon to fall. (/sacrasm)

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security

like it's some kind of federal program."

- George W. Bush in a debate in St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000

Maybe I have missed the

Submitted by googa1 on April 13, 2006 - 9:46pm.

Maybe I have missed the obvious but when did the government turn Moussaoui into the mastermind of 9/11? What I am reading keeps implying that Moussaoui has "no regret, no remorse" about 9/11. I know Bush wants to pin 9/11 on Moussaoui to make people forget that Osama is still running around. And Bin Laden was NOT the mastermind of 9/11, contrary to what the government says. It was Ramzi Yousef's plan, the Boijinka plot.

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security

like it's some kind of federal program."

- George W. Bush in a debate in St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000

Wow

Submitted by RDillon on April 14, 2006 - 1:08am.

Great research Gloria!!!

You didn't know about this,

Submitted by googa1 on April 14, 2006 - 7:41pm.

You didn't know about this, RIch? Oh, we need to talk! I have some copies of FBI files all about Yosef. The real point is Yosef was caught by Clinton and brought to justice WITHOUT starting any wars. Bush has started 2 and working on a 3rd and has only netted MSK.

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security

like it's some kind of federal program."

- George W. Bush in a debate in St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000

Bagooga

Submitted by wahoo on April 14, 2006 - 7:53pm.

Submarine   USS Wahoo  ss238

So how do you think Cheney fits in to this with he being
in charge of 'Operation Northern Guardian' that week?
That evidence we can get instantly.

What about how the buildings fell, how could we get evidence
that they were demolished from the ground up, because they
sure didnt fall down because of some jet fuel fires.

Good Lord Wahoo, you think

Submitted by googa1 on April 14, 2006 - 8:06pm.

Good Lord Wahoo, you think anyone listens to me? I know there are some pieces of the WTC out there (some pieces were on eBay after 9/11) for someone to test. I know there is an artist in NC who is supposed to have a large section of metal to create some type of monument - but Americans would NEVER let anyone investigate, they are lead too easily by Moron in the White House. Bush would be saying, to doubt 9/11 is to be Un-American, not supporting the troops and helping the terrorists.

Wahoo, you got a Yahoo Messenger name or an AIM name?

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security

like it's some kind of federal program."

- George W. Bush in a debate in St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000

Try Logic & Reason

Submitted by Bill Harding (not verified) on April 14, 2006 - 8:13pm.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/collapse.html

NOVA: The Twin Towers collapsed essentially straight down. Was there any chance they could have tipped over?

Eagar: It's really not possible in this case. In our normal experience, we deal with small things, say, a glass of water, that might tip over, and we don't realize how far something has to tip proportional to its base. The base of the World Trade Center was 208 feet on a side, and that means it would have had to have tipped at least 100 feet to one side in order to move its center of gravity from the center of the building out beyond its base. That would have been a tremendous amount of bending. In a building that is mostly air, as the World Trade Center was, there would have been buckling columns, and it would have come straight down before it ever tipped over.

[Snip]

Have you ever seen the demolition of buildings? They blow them up, and they implode. Well, I once asked demolition experts, "How do you get it to implode and not fall outward?" They said, "Oh, it's really how you time and place the explosives." I always accepted that answer, until the World Trade Center, when I thought about it myself. And that's not the correct answer. The correct answer is, there's no other way for them to go but down. They're too big. With anything that massive -- each of the World Trade Center towers weighed half a million tons -- there's nothing that can exert a big enough force to push it sideways.

[Snip]

NOVA: You've said that the fire is the most misunderstood part of the World Trade Center collapse. Why?

Eagar: The problem is that most people, even some engineers, talk about temperature and heat as if they're identical. In fact, scientifically, they're only related to each other. Temperature tells me the intensity of the heat -- is it 100 degrees, 200 degrees, 300 degrees? The heat tells me how big the thing is that gets hot. I mean, I could boil a cup of water to make a cup of tea, or I could boil ten gallons of water to cook a bunch of lobsters. So it takes a lot more energy to cook the lobsters -- heat is related to energy. That's the difference: We call the intensity of heat the temperature, and the amount of heat the energy.

NOVA: So with the World Trade Center fire, the heat was much greater than might have been expected in a typical fire?

Eagar: Right. We had all this extra fuel from the aircraft. Now, there have been fires in skyscrapers before. The Hotel Meridien in Philadelphia had a fire, but it didn't do this kind of damage. The real damage in the World Trade Center resulted from the size of the fire. Each floor was about an acre, and the fire covered the whole floor within a few seconds. Ordinarily, it would take a lot longer. If, say, I have an acre of property, and I start a brushfire in one corner, it might take an hour, even with a good wind, to go from one corner and start burning the other corner.

That's what the designers of the World Trade Center were designing for—a fire that starts in a wastepaper basket, for instance. By the time it gets to the far corner of the building, it has already burned up all the fuel that was back at the point of origin. So the beams where it started have already started to cool down and regain their strength before you start to weaken the ones on the other side.

On September 11th, the whole floor was damaged all at once, and that's really the cause of the World Trade Center collapse. There was so much fuel spread so quickly that the entire floor got weakened all at once, whereas in a normal fire, people should not think that if there's a fire in a high-rise building that the building will come crashing down. This was a very unusual situation, in which someone dumped 10,000 gallons of jet fuel in an instant.

Bill, I love you to death -

Submitted by googa1 on April 14, 2006 - 8:57pm.

Bill, I love you to death - but I completely disagree with you on this one! While I agree with some of the facts in the article, I do believe the building SHOULD have "tipped" over and not flatted upon itself.

If the heat when down the elevator shaft then how were all the people in the elevators rescued? I would think the extreme heat would have melted the elevator cable and cooked the people inside.

Buildings don't topple? I do believe Yosef was trying to topple one WTC tower into the other in the 1993 bombing. 1993 bombing took out 6 stories - that should have weakened all the steel in that section at one precise moment and it still STOOD! And the bombing came at the underground parking facility were I could easily see the foundation being shifted but from 86th story - I'm not convinced since the building was built to sway in accordance to wind models.

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security

like it's some kind of federal program."

- George W. Bush in a debate in St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000

Gloria, I return the love,

Submitted by Bill Harding (not verified) on April 14, 2006 - 9:10pm.

Gloria, I return the love, but you want so badly to believe that there is a "conspiracy" that you discount all logic and reason. As this highly respected scientist pointed out, it would be physically impossible to "tip" a building as large as the WTC. It wasn't the temperature that weakened the structures, it was the amount of heat energy coming in such a short period of time.

When you can show me a degree in metallurgy, or physics, then I may be willing to listen to your theories. Until then however, what you believe to be "obvious" is neither based on fact, nor solid reasoning. You can disagree all you want, but you can not change the facts as they stand: the buildings imploded, because that was the only way they could collapse. They collapsed because a sufficient number of beams were weakened by a massive amount of heat energy all at once. Gravity worked as it always has, and did the rest.

How do we know that he didn't talk?

Submitted by cleo on April 14, 2006 - 8:07pm.

The charge against Moussaoui is that he knew about the plans and didn't tell, thus 9/11 occurred. Who knows what he told the people holding him? Was he even interrogated? I don't trust anything coming out of this administration. They haven 't told the truth before so why start now? Moussaoui deosn't want to stop talking now. He is even dreaming that George will pardon him. What was his explanation for just wanting to learn how to fly a plan but not take off or land? Bush and company need someone to execute for 9/11. They have spent millions on this trial. This is another Roman circus to take our minds off of the soldiers and Iraqi's dying now in Iraq. Nothing will bring the 9/11 victims back. They need to rest in peace and this guy needs to be locked away.

If we are going to sentence

Submitted by googa1 on April 14, 2006 - 8:26pm.

If we are going to sentence Moussaoui to possibly die for a plan he didn't participate in but MAY have had knowledge - what is going to happen to George W? Bush knew we were going to attack Iraq right after 9/11 but he didn't tell the American public the truth. How many witnesses need to come forward before 50% of the Americans want to do something?

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security

like it's some kind of federal program."

- George W. Bush in a debate in St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000

I am afraid

Submitted by dinamic on April 15, 2006 - 9:31am.

that the law like history favors the victor, Gloria. There is nothing fair or equitable about it and there never was.

Proud member of the reality based community.

Right punishment....Wrong terrorist....

Submitted by Veritas2020 on April 15, 2006 - 10:23am.

Moussaoui is 'insane'; --he's out of mind!

The punishment fits the crime; but he {Moussaoui} is the wrong guy!

Federal proscecutors know very good and well ; that when a 'witness' in this case 'defendant'; comes forth and blurs out his actions, crimes and screams out before the jury that 'he did it'; and 'death be to Americans'; --this a 'person who probably didn't need to be tried' before a court!---what a waste of time!

Is he the 'sacrifice' for 9-11 ....making him a martyr isn't going to help the victims survivors....instead of trying this man --why not capture the 'ring-leader' --[BinLaden] --this guy is a 'third party' nut.

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