MSNBC Asks the "Impeachment" Question in a POLL finally
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904
as of this posting there is an 88% YES rate. Oh this is one question that CNN and FOX sooooo don't want to ask. MSNBC may be sending a signal here by trying to be the first to actually ask it.
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Scientific or not, good poll so far
I cast my vote and 88% of the people voting (28,200) said impeach him. If only the Republicans in Congress could remember what democracy was like. Some of them don't really like dictators. The ones who side with der Fuhrer are the same ones that think that the economy is booming and Paris Hilton contributes greatly to our society. If I find that magic lantern, rest assured if the genie pops out I will be asking for the impeachment of Bush and Cheney before I ask for my millions. With one wish, I could at least try to put America back on course.
Cleo, could you also ask for
Cleo, could you also ask for more Scientists as members of Democrats.com so that you, Jim, and Golfmonkey don't feel so left out?...;-)
Best News I have heard all day
e4e here of http://watergatesummer.blogspot.com/, So MSNBC finallly polled, is it still up and running- I need to vote...Best news I have heard all day - thanks
i don't feel left out
Remember I am not a scientist. I like DR. Senator Frist am a healer. We have to blend science with some people skills. However, unlike, Dr. Senator Frist, I actually see and touch the patients and their specimens and don't make opinions from videotapes. I also have an earthly idea about the value of my stck holdings (zero). Do I act like I feel left out?
Sorry about that Cleo. The
Sorry about that Cleo. The comment was meant to be humorous, and to keep Jim on his toes...;-) I hope no one feels "left out" on this blog.
I thought everyone was a
I thought everyone was a scientist, doctor, or president these days.
Paraphrasing Monty Python: I have a theory that dinosaurs are skinny at the front, get fatter towards the middle and then thin out near the end.
See, I learned something. I
See, I learned something. I always thought that it was the other way around.
Hey Bill
If you get a chance, check out the cover to this weeks "Weekly World News" at the local grocery store. Hint: either Hawaii is privy to an evolutionary change, or you forgot to put on the makeup before going to the beach.
Saving the world from stupidity
One Republican at a time
Since November, 2004
Vince, my "local" grocery
Vince, my "local" grocery store only has poi, pork, kim chee, and the Shopper's Weekly. Enlighten me...;-)
Flying Sheep
And now for something completely the same.
My five year old thoroughly enjoyed her introduction to MNTYPYTHN this evening. Down to the final shot.
"You can hear the sheep hitting the ground after they try to fly!" G giggled.
"Baa! BAA!" Vintage Python.
The following advert - on a different channel - was for a mattress company, which featured the counting sheep, who fly.
This surreal pattern reality we inhabit is enough to engender hope in me... assuming the species survives. Meanwhile, an active forum topic on democrats.com is "What are the Congressional Choices for ENDING a war?"
Well, indeed: it would be sensible to take the choice away from the people who justified using our good names and funds at a time of national grief, to go start a war for oil industry profits, fill their friends' banks, and base their cover stories to we the people on lies.
Poll was me capitulating to the popular blog meme
Since I fought for the term survey for the last two years with no discernable impact. There's nothing, zero, nada, zilch scientific about it...but there is a hell of a lot politically about this that can still make us stand up and take notice. Now stop massaging each other and get your friends to vote!
I wonder if the results of this particular poll...
will ever be announced during regular programing. Certainly it is one of the first such exposures. Obviously it has not yet reached the inhabitants of freerepublic who are very good at 'freeping' such polls.
I havent checked yet to see if this poll has arrived at the DU boards.
We could also use a few more musicians around here as well...just to offset the scientists...hehehe.
Yep it's being watched closely at DU now
And with over 40K responses it's around 89% for impeachment. I think MSNBC may need to start doing more liberal programming since it does appear their audience is a bit different from FOX. Then again I'd love to see Fox run this poll (survey) on their front page...the results might just suprise THEM.
My hunch is that the 'media' is starting to hedge...
their bets as to their political leanings. As Bush popularity(?)wanes, they have to be considering a quick switch to whatever appears to be the future--their ratings($$$)depend on it.
I figured that DU would pick this up quickly.
If the number of responses continues at such a high level, am sure there will be a number of very pale faces around the media. Ought to be interesting to see what the Icons have to say--provided they make any comments at all.
88% is damn impressive.
MSNBC reaches a wide audience.
The other media " giants" could learn a
thing or two from them.
That poll has been stuck on
That poll has been stuck on ~88% from 14,000 to now 46,000 respondents. It ain't gonna change.
Spin will bring similar polls down a bit, but the mood tonight from Conservative and Liberal folks alike –regardless of party affiliation- is WTF.
Right you are, Jim!
Right you are, Jim!
It just occurred to me that
It just occurred to me that conservative and liberal folks have something else in common. We have been marginalized in our respective parties. Thankfully we both remain under the moniker of “America” and can work to bring her back to glory.
Well said , Jim.
Well said , Jim.
The division doesn't serve anyone except for the
neocon zealots who take full advantage of the situation.
Divide and conquer? BS!
Divide and destroy what the US is and stands for!
51,500
Fifty one thousand...
The first impeachment movement I signed over two years ago had less than 2,000... I was an online student, so guess I got an early mailing. Now 51... this is a day to celebrate, a crossroad, a swinging-back of the highjacked pendulum, yes, a day to massage one another AND to reinvigorate our resolve.
America will return to we the people, with truth, justice, and liberty for all.
It did change Jim...
88% became 89%. And, the total number continues to climb.
Anyone want to bet that msnbc pulls/changes the question?
Hey Grinch, I just checked
Hey Grinch, I just checked and it’s at 88%!
I guess all the late night spin helped Bush after all. Is 88% a diebold safe majority?
The Poll
All I can say is Yippeeeeee!!! I hope this makes people wake up. Maybe they'll do something with Bush after all.
Divorce
This moment feels like a transitional sequence in American Beauty: after the wife was seen with her lover in public, over dinner that night the husband says "You don't get to tell ME what to do, ever again."
Bush is in the limelight before the nation, pants down, and we're not asleep or looking away this time.
I appreciate the irony and wisdom in the diebold joke, but I believe the endgame has begun - this administration has shown us enough of its tricks that we know where to look for the major traps now... .
As much misguided and powerless as numb, deceived, grieving and fearful Americans divided have been... much much more free and powerful will be an alert, focused, clear, and justifiably angry USA.
I do not believe the Bushies can settle out of court, their extreme debts to this nation, so we will have our day in court.
What is the current punishment for treason?
In time of war? Death is one of the punishments...
more probably imprisonment for life in a Federal Facility--probably Leavenworth.
If this were to come about...wonder what sort of catfight it would be politically between the parties?
Guantanamo would be my preference so that we could get all his 'secrets' out of him.
Thanks
Seconded - but with the caveat that we are better morally than what our ethics lead us to do. Not an "eye for an eye," more a "taste of his own medicine," eh?
True dat: will be hard to believe a thing he says even in court. Maybe he should be taking notes from Saddam.
question is now changed. Now asks
If we are willing to give up our privacy to help find the Terrorists. about 78% say HELL NO as of my last check.
Is there a report or archive
of the earlier poll question and result?
I saw no mention in any cable news about that poll while I was aware it was running, early this morning.
Vote
I just went to MSNBC to cast my vote. There were 73,256 people before me and the percentage was 87. I wish they'd put it on the front page so that everyone would find it.
Use the link at the top of this page...takes
you directly to the poll. Dunno if its still open, apparently you can only vote once.
Tab. just a few minutes ago was over 77,500 and the impeach question was holding at 87%.
High % was 89% for about 15,000 votes between about 25,000 and 40,000.
Seems as if the Freepers failed to catch these questions altogether. They may be coming unglued with all the bad news they are getting.
No telling what this has done to the doyens of the major press.
84,493 votes by their count
and it ends up at 87% wanting impeachment ;)
I guess the freepers are in shock and hiding under their beds.
Proud member of the reality based community.
130385 responses
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904
update on the poll,
Do you believe President Bush's actions justify impeachment? * 139985 responses
Yes, between the secret spying, the deceptions leading to war and more, there is plenty to justify putting him on trial.
85%
No, like any president, he has made a few missteps, but nothing approaching "high crimes and misdemeanors."
5%
No, the man has done absolutely nothing wrong. Impeachment would just be a political lynching.
8%
I don't know.
2%
looks like this last fiasco woke the rest of the country! The poll is still open, but holding at 85%.
You guys are funny
So, Bill Clinton used the same powers to kick down the door of an American citizen suspected of spying, but Bush needs to be impeached for utilizing powers that Jamie Gorelick herself in 1994 said are "inherent" to the presidency....hmmmm.
Quit rooting against your country; well against the US. Go live in Europe with the rest of the socialists and their 12% unemployment and $6.50 gallon gasoline.
JohnL
This is the holiday season and the last thing that we need is to play games with the likes of you. So I am going to ask you nicely one time, please don't waste your time or ours with this kind of nonsense. Bill Clinton is not the president who we are dealing with now and we have heard everything that you could possibly think of to say about him so have a happy Christmas and try to behave like a guest while you are here or Santa will have to drop kick your butt to the moon.
Santa Claus moderator democrats.com
Proud member of the reality based community.
Gotta run...
If he can't behave himself, you know what to do. I don't think he wiped his feet before he came in.
Bill Clinton took proper channels
Please tell me why Bush didn't go before FISA.
John, Get a job and read
John,
Get a job and read a book instead of living off the welfare of those of us who contribute. This is America. If you are more comfortable as a Nazi or under the Crown than find a Nation more suited to your liking.
Jim
Why do we have to leave the
Why do we have to leave the USA? We believe in the Constitution, we believe in checks and balances, we believe in life liberty and the pursuit of happiness for ALL Americans - yes, even the gay ones.
Why don't the Religious Right go to Iran where religion rules? It's your ultimate goal. Why don't the rest of you leave and go to a country where the government restricts your freedom and knowledge - I would suggest North Korea were they pipe in propaganda on how wonderful their leader is, restrict the press to write only glowing reviews of his actions, uses all it's money to buy weaponary and lets the mass population fend for themselves. It would be paradise for you nut cases once you overthrew the government there which is one of your goals anyway.
"They want the federal government controlling Social Security
like it's some kind of federal program."
- George W. Bush in a debate in St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000
remember when
the moderators here were trying to say that we should concentrate on the 06 elections and not impeachment....but a guy can't help but think momentem is building....
can I wish upon a star now guys?????????
Hmmmm...Beetlejuice in Orion is a good star
to wish on.
beetlejuice in Orion..................
youse guys are tough.
Poll
It would seem to me that at this point this poll could be considered relatively legit since there has to be a random sampling of voters at some point.
mint whatever
This John guy sounds exactly like the last guy who pushed his luck so far that he was ready to be thrown out. How did John get in without a profile or anything??? Sorry I can't remember his name. I guess I tried so hard to ignore him that I can't even remember what he called himself.
Mintcoach(nycoach)just likes circular arguments...
this guy just wants to be nasty...but fails to avail himself of the facts. He listens to Rush and reads Newsmax(the Richard Mellon Scaife site).
the time has come, for all good men...
What we're at here is the basic preservation of democracy. Not in Gaspumpistan, or Hasbeenistan, or Wannabeistan, but in America-stan. Things have been let go far enough, and the time has come for reform, starting with removing all of Standard Oil's little idiot redheaded stepchildren and their hangers-on from the halls of government. Lobbyists in many ways definitely seem to be running this country now, and the energy lobby is by far one of the most powerful. This isn't representative government anymore, it's cartel goverment. So, time for reform. Mark Twain said it best when he observed that democracy lasts right up until people realize that they can vote themselves money, and a quick trip through the newspaper headlines of the last several years, even some of those years under Clinton, will reliably yield that we're rapidly approaching or may have already reached said point.
So, what form should such reforms take?
Well, my suggestion is that reforms start with the wallet, namely yours, mine, and everybody's, by seriously advancing a flat tax, make it 15%, it has worked in other countries already, nothing stopping us from implementing it in america but fear and good sense. Get the monies cleared up, a lot of other things will fall into place, in my view.
The second such reform has to do with how much is spent. The dems, long notorious as 'tax and spend liberals' etc., have had their fiscally irresponsible reputations, such as they were, brought back up to factory specification by the
fiscal incompetence of BushCo. With the national debt now standing at 8.1 trillion dollars, and the interest on that debt now at 4.25% or thereabouts,
if we'd like the greenback to have any value other than as mattress filler in 2025, spending reforms are imperative. If we continue at the rate of deficit spending we're at now, it won't be long 'til we're paying 500 billion a year just in INTEREST on that national debt. 500 billion is more than defense, makes u think, doesn't it? At what point in time will the propensity for generating new red ink lead us down the garden path that almost ruined Italy in pre-euro times?
Another reform is energy. There's no reason on god's green earth other than pledged fealty to the oil moguls NOT to implement hydrogen-as-fuel nationwide, coupled with a robust ethanol production program and an equally robust conservation program. Bush has, if grudgingly, to his credit, made some small steps in that general direction, but nothing that will strain his constituents' luncheon funds etc. More is needed.
If the american indians in north dakota can heat their homes off the sun in wintertime, there's nothing stopping anyone else out there from making similar changes to their homes. If Congress et. al. want to redeem themselves in the public eye, then they need to come out with both arms swinging on the issue of conservation. It also bears mentioning that a successful 30% reduction in american energy usage on average would do wonders for other issues like middle east oil dependency and dealing with great countries like Venezuela and Mexico and other OPEC hangers-on.
Benefit and entitlement reforms: There are too many people that do absolutely NOTHING and expect a free paycheck etc. for it. Likewise the cost of healthcare will continue to match the amount of money the goverment sees fit to throw at it. Modern medicine is no less a racket than energy,
and only one area where spending reforms are necessary. No one wants to deny grandma her heart bypass, but chances are, like with real estate, that the costs will go down, as if by magic, when less taxpayer dollars are provided to pay for it.
More logic, more common sense, and less euphemistic figure skating will be needed from our representatives in the 21st century. Those who don't see fit to fully apply themselves to the task should be asked to step down, and make room for those willing to do so.
Finally, just a point on general philosophy: JFK
made a famous statement, "Ask not, what your country can do for YOU, ask what YOU can do for your country. Welfare-statism is destructive. More focus needs to be applied to individual paths to success, boot-strapping, if you will, giving people pointers on obtaining the information they need to solve their own problems, and become more civically involved. New Orleans was a case of complete lack of civic participation prior to their disaster, and throughout the aftermath. If government is percieved to be other than We, The People, then our representatives have egregiously missed the mark in including the american voter in the various and sundry goings-on. Reform is good, it revitalizes and renews communities, cities, states, and ultimately the Nation by association. If we are to meet the challenges of 2006 and beyond, and be effective, it will only be by way
of getting more people to the polls, and more issues being brought to a public vote, and fully discussed on TV and the radio. We don't need more info-tainment, we need more facts. More opportunities for the public to participate, more real representation instead of INO candidates who then go back to effectively skimming the till at will. People like Abramoff and DeLay are good negative examples of politics run amok, and a disconnect from the people they initially claimed to represent. Doubtless the problems evidenced these days in the GOP can likewise be found in the DNC, and to safeguard against similar problems should the democrats again gain the majority in House and Senate, it would behoove those seeking and holding office to study these events with great interest, and look to their own conduct with an eye to prevention.
Thank you.
non illegitimati carborundum
-A 15% flat tax is not
-A 15% flat tax is not revenue neutral so it has little meaning unless you describe what you would cut. Further, it exacerbates the crappy wages at the low end.
-The tax and spend you refer to is bullshit. You will note that Republicans pulled cash out of the ether (borrowing from foreign nations for example) when they wished to spend it on cronies.
-Two wrongs do not make a right, but even forgetting the above, the tax and spend stigma is pure nonsense (generally speaking). ALL political parties, and ALL Americans, believe in taking from the winner and giving to the loser at the voting booth. I speak here of CASH. This includes all Republicans and ALL Libertarians, and to an enormous degree. Democrats do as well. They simply extend this to create a middle class. It is accomplished via the “progressive” income tax. (You’ll have to study the blog and track my posts to get a feel for why I place that in quotes.) It is also at times accomplished in a piecemeal fashion.
-The tax and spend bullshit came about by getting people to view each increase in compensation for labor, by a particular group, as being bad for “me”. The problem is, informal monopolies form easily at the top and can only be thwarted by a unified effort. The goal then is to blow the majority apart on divisive issues.
-There is a great danger of increasing the compensation for labor of the vast majority, at the expense of those at the top. The danger is that one goes so far as to change the behavior of those at the top. That is the danger of Socialism. That breaks with the goals of Free Enterprise.
-The above is NOT something that is presently occurring in America. The opposite is occurring and true patriots are doing something about it. Those at the top are making 10 times more (and some times far more than that) what is needed to motivate these individuals to do their respective jobs. That breaks with the goals of Free Enterprise. The American experiment needs to be defended from the Left and the Right.Conversely, compensation for labor for the vast majority is horrible, and has been for some 30 years.
-I am assuming you are pointing to the poor and middle class as those who do “NOTHING” and expect a free paycheck. The problem of course is the numbers. The least efficient amongst us are at the top right now.
-Your thoughts on healthcare stem from the false mythos of Republicanism. Of Rush’s “rugged individualist” motif. I deconstruct these arguments above and elsewhere on this blog. Americans need to derive principles from the ground up. In particular Health Care is VERY differant than any other compensation for labor package. People generally do not get Cancer to stick it to the tax payers. (Still, I am working on something we both can agree on now. That is, cash compensation, in the form of rebates in December, for staying within health parameters controlled by the individual.)
-With respect to Hydrogen, I am all for innovation and finally getting off our asses and making changes. I would note however that Hydrogen is simply a place holder, it is NOT a source of energy. Do not come back blasting this. I am happy to explain more if you desire conversation.
I am an Independent. That is why I’m a Democrat.
George W. Bush and his corrupt GOP
Shouldn't be allowed to touch another damned thing.
Reform? Start with corruption in GOP.
this is nuts
how can a rational man be a proponent of the flat tax???
the countries that have it just dont buy taxed items if they can avoid it.All the words in the world won't make it a good thing. Cut taxes..make new taxes...meet the new boss same as the old boss and on and on
Update
Just for an update, after 150,000 votes, we are holding at 85%. Amazing poll. We are not alone.