Why are Democratic bloggers ignoring GOP fraud in Ohio and Florida?
-
Bob FertikWant to meet our members? Click 'Join' above!
I've been making the rounds at some of the most prominent Democratic blogs, and I'm frankly shocked that they are mostly refusing to scrutinize the results in Ohio and Florida.
All year long, blogs like DailyKos, MyDD, and DonkeyRising pored over every detail of every poll, looking for flaws and contradictions and trends. The assumption of course, was that polls would predict the actual vote with some degree of accuracy. But the most important polls - the last pre-election polls and the exit polls - nearly all projected Kerry as the winner of both the popular vote and the Electoral College.
Yet somehow the "actual" vote showed Bush winning by 3 full points, 51.3%-48.3%, and winning both Ohio and Florida to go over 270 Electoral College votes.
Doesn't that deserve some strict scrutiny?
This is not an academic question. If we can document fraud in Ohio or Florida before the election is certified and electors are chosen, we could actually send John Kerry to the White House.
Why do I suspect fraud?
- The early exit polls had Kerry winning the battleground states, just as Gore was winning Florida in 2000. Yet somehow those exit poll numbers changed during and after the voting - and they all changed in Bush's favor. What's up with that? Joseph Cannon keeps asking this question, but no one is answering.
- The final exit poll showed Kerry winning 53%-44% among the 9% who chose their candidate in the last 3 days. Given how close the pre-election polls were, that should have put Kerry ahead at the finish line, not 3.5 million votes behind.
- Bush went from 50.5 million in 2000 (final) to 59.5 million (Election Day). Where did those 9 million new votes (18% increase) come from? Even Kommandante Karl Rove only promised 4 million evangelicals who "sat out" 2000. The exit poll says 17% of the 2004 voters didn't vote in 2000, so that is a universe of (17%*116)=20 million new voters. Bush got 45% of those votes, so there are his 9 million votes. But Kerry got 54% of those 20 million - so he should have added 11 million to Gore's 51 million, bringing him to 62 million, instead of 55 million! That's 7 million missing votes for Kerry - did only Gore voters die or stay home in 2004? Am I the only one who noticed?
Here's a quick tour of the most prominent Democratic bloggers:
- DailyKos: trashes Bush's claim to a "mandate," looks for signs of Democratic strength amidst the rubble, looks for new leadership and ideas. This thread reviews the pre-polls and mostly concludes there were more Republicans than we all assumed, which sounds like defeatism to me. The question of fraud seems relegated to this one thread, where it's nearly impossible to find the wheat amidst all the chaff.
- MyDD: Chris Bowers is looking for research help.
- Talking Points Memo: Not one word about fraud. Is Josh waiting for the Washington Post or NY Times to cover it? When hell freezes over, perhaps.
- Eschaton: Atrios took a few days off, so maybe he'll look into fraud tomorrow.
Here are the ones who think fraud is worth examining:
- Bob Fertik's blog
- |
- Login or register to post comments
- |
-
- |
Top Actions
-
40,910 of 50,000
-
34,745 of 40,000
-
23,496 of 30,000
Comments
Different theories about the silent bloggers
This is just a personal take on the "Silent/MIA bloggers," so please take it as it is. In the case of "Kos" and "Atrios" I have read (form their fans) that both are interested in pursuing political careers. The former has even declared the desire of becoming an elected official in the future. Do I need to say more? I guess this is the way they are "framing" their credentials. I am sorry to tell them that in order to be elected their possible votes need to be counted or registered first! Chris Bowers does not seem to believe that the Republicans would dare to use dirty tricks to manipulate electoral results. Marshall does not seem the type of individual that would take a look at the data on this story, Mr. Fertik. He seems to be fairly happy within the web "mainstream" community. To summarize my argument, I believe all of the above will keep the noted bloggers away from this issue. "Too much prestige to lose", I guess.
Here's Kos's take
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/6/185519/455
The F word
I, like Bev Harris, have no problem, using the F word (fraud). When you have a program called "Rob Georgia" in the mid-term elections and the simple fact that these machines are run by Republican corporations who COUNT the votes - give me a break. If people are not yelling now - it doesn't matter who runs in the future. It shouldn't be a partisan issue. And by the way, where the h*ll is MoveOn in this? That's a massive organization that always, always gets the mainstream press involved whether they like it or not. -S
HOWARD DEAN wouldn't have submitted ! Kerry's profund Shame.
This is a profond shame
Kerry will carry the rest of
his life, - to have submitted to
straight criminals .
Kerry can still reverse that to prevent
the name kerry from eternal shame.
Now GOP will only refine this
stealing voting. And DEM will
be out_demed for 50 years at least !!!!
Who can doubt these 'major_worse dan Capone
people' to have the slightest problem with MASSIVE
MASSIVE MASSIVE VOTING HACKING?
PS
jUST SEE THE ELECTION EVENING CNN'S LARRY'S REACTION
WHEN THEY START TO DISCUSSS EXIT POLLS.
He and I thought "This is it !"
I think they have to use knifes at the polls
to have the democrates move.
(This Polls came from FRance where they reacted differently
at the Bastille)
Bullshit
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/6/185519/455
We assembled all of the evidence of Stolen Election 2000 at http://gorewonflorida.org
We're assembling all of the evidence of Stolen Election 2004 here.
Of course if Kos & Co. aren't interested in examining the evidence that 51+55=106 million good Democratic votes were thrown away, then they should stop pretending to be Democrats.
Olberman
At least we got Keith Olberman reporting on it.
3 Reasons Professionals are ignoring ...
1) Hurricanes in Florida - Jeb & W handout tons of Federal Aid to the counties in question in Florida, this is credited with the odd pro-bush results.
2) There is mounting evidence that democrats were given information prior to the election of where the exit pollers were going to be and they sent people to fake out the exit pollers ... this is why the results are skewed with too many women. Democratic women operatives flocked from exit poller to exit poller, without really voting.
3) Bush won, Kerry conceded, 10,000 democratic lawyers couldn't find a case strong enough to pursue. It's bad for the country not to have a legitimate president, and it's bad for the democrats to be viewed as frivolous litigators and sore losers. Let's move on, please!
Come Out of the Closet
You know, I've come across several of your posts, Mr. Democrat, and I've a sneaking suspicion that you sir are a Republican.
We must learn from the past, live in the present, and prepare for the future. In doing so, we increase the promise that is part of being human. Nothing in this world has ever been accomplished without passion.
Out of the Closet
Sir,
I am neither a man, nor a Republican.
But to be honest am considering jumping ship.
Reading post after post of blaming the candidate, or the dumb electorate or the cheating GOP, rather than any thought or introspection has me very disappointed with the current state of the party.
Oh please
With a name like Carmen San Diego -- why wouldn't we trust you. Where in the world are you anyway?
but of the point
I will move on -- but I have to take time to assess the situation. I have NO trust in Bush, as you seem to have. No trust means I believe he or his people would stoop to anything -- even voter fraud. Maybe if you take a break and come back in a couple weeks we can talk about strategy for the future.
Of Course
Of course you are right. We should have spent a lot more time working on this puzzle before the elections. What I find intersting is that there are plenty of people who actually believe its okay that electronic vote counting needs no verfication. In my opinion they are all insane. I guess they are so stupid they trust that "no one would cheat in America". Or they do not care as long as their candidate of choice wins. But until the voting machines are debunked there will never again be a free election and there is no point in trying to do a better job at the polls, or improve our campaigning ability, or change our values, or embrace the right wing agenda, or consider ourselves out of step, when the vote counting is rigged. Simply put, the votes in 2004 were counted in secret by Bush's friends. Bush won. Duh!
Jeff
Right on!
"there are plenty of people who actually believe its okay that electronic vote counting needs no verfication. In my opinion they are all insane."
I don't think they're ALL insane, only the Democrats. I can understand why republicans wouldn't be worried about verification. LOL.
"until the voting machines are debunked there will never again be a free election and there is no point in trying to do a better job at the polls, or improve our campaigning ability, or change our values, or embrace the right wing agenda, or consider ourselves out of step, when the vote counting is rigged."
I couldn't have said it better myself!
I live in a foreign country; our news sources are different of course; from here it looks like your last free Federal election was in 1998. In my view you don't need to PROTECT your democracy so much as you need to RECLAIM it.
Now the rest of the world is watching you and wondering "Have they reached the point where they don't even care about their DEMOCRACY any more?"
Please tell me we're wrong.
I live in North Carolina wher
I live in North Carolina where mysteriously over 1000 votes were lost when a computer crashed ..what of those votes???
Move On?
I'm new to this forum, so if this has already been covered, apologies in advance...
I think those who advocate "moving on" are missing a key point - if the election process was not 100% honest and transparent in 2004, what is the likelihood that it will be any better in '06 or '08?
We have reached what Andy Grove called an inflection point - election technology has (or will soon) become sufficiently sophisticated that future fraud will be very difficult (if not impossible) to detect. Think of the 2004 election as Release 1.0 for Diebold. We are not in the good old days when the Democratic machine in Chicago had to manually stuff ballot boxes (sorry, but it's true - the Democrats have had their turn at this).
I would rather we be accused of dragging out this election than facing the prospect of a totally rigged election next time.
But for this effort to be meaningful, we need to be organized and focused. We need to hold our leadership accountable, or find new leadership. Now. Not 4 years from now.
My vote? Bring back Howard Dean - he ain't perfect, but he's honest and doesn't back down.
recieved this email in response
Dear writer,
Because of the massive requests for information I am unable to give you a more detailed response at this time. I hope this fact sheet answers your concerns.
Thank you,
Dan Trevas, Ohio Democratic Party Communications Director
Every Vote Will Be Counted!
The Ohio Democratic Party shares Sen. John Kerry’s insistence that every vote be counted.
Here is where we stand in Ohio:
► After the Unofficial Results reported Nov. 2 – George Bush leads John Kerry by 136,483 votes.
► Provisional ballots will be counted.
155,000 provisional ballots have been cast and not yet been counted.
County Boards of Elections have until Friday to verify the eligibility of those who cast a provisional vote. Counting will begin, Saturday, November 13. County Boards have until. Dec. 1, 2004 to certify their vote totals and report them to the Secretary of State.
► Two Democrats and Two Republicans sit on each County Board of Elections.
Tabulations of the votes will be done in a bi-partisan manner. Only if there is a tie vote on the board does the decision go to the Secretary of State.
► Overseas absentee ballots have not been counted.
Overseas Absentee ballots by civilians may have been received by County Boards of Elections by Nov. 2 that have not yet been counted. The Boards of Elections will count those votes.
Overseas absentee ballots by military have until, Friday, Nov. 12 to arrive and be counted by the Boards of Elections in the final total.
► 93,000 punch cards were cast, but a vote for president was not counted.
The votes were not counted either because the voter voted for more than one candidate or did not vote for a presidential candidate. These ballots will be reexamined if there is a recount.
Ohio has a uniform, statewide system for recounting punch card ballots. Hanging chads and dimpled chads are treated uniformly throughout the state.
► Examination for errors going on in all 88 Ohio counties.
A Vote Error on Election night gave George Bush 3,893 more votes in a Franklin County precinct than actually cast for him. That error was found by comparing the unofficial abstract of votes casts by precinct to votes for each candidate. Officials in all 88 counties have been contacted and requested to review for a similar error.
► No Ohio County used Diebold Electronic Voting Machines
Ohio did not use modern electronic voting machines in this election. Six counties use an older form of electronic voting, which has a means of verifying the accuracy of the vote. In 69 Ohio Counties, punch card ballots were used.
► Recount – In Ohio a recount is automatic for statewide election if difference in the vote is within 0.25% of the total votes cast.
For a recount is the presidential race, this is probably about a 19,000-vote margin between Kerry and Bush.
Only a losing candidate can request a recount. A recount may always be requested regardless of the closeness of the race. The recount is requested by the losing candidate. The request for a recount must be made within 5 days of the official announcement of the results by the Secretary of State.
The fee for a recount is set by each Board of Elections and may be between $5 and $10 per precinct. You can limit the recount to specific precincts. The cost is deposited by the person making the recount request at the time of the application based on the number of precincts requested to be recounted. The entire recount and contest procedures are outlined at ORC 3515.
► Vote Fraud or Mistakes – Information about fraud or mistake can be reported the Ohio Democratic Party.
You can leave a message at (614) 221-6563 ext. 134 or email dan@ohiodems.org This information will be share with our legal counsel as the official election tabulations are being made.
You may also share any concerns about voter fraud or mistakes the Secretary of State by emailing: election@sos.state.oh.us
► Contacting Kerry.
If you would like to urge Kerry to withdraw his concession or share information about election fraud, Cameron Kerry, John’s brother is collecting comments. His email is: CKerry@Mintz.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tell Congress to investigate election 2004 fraud
I just sent a messge via moveon.org to Congress urging an investigation of elction fraud. I invite you to as well... MoveOn's message:
Questions are swirling around whether the election was conducted honestly or not. We need to know -- was it or wasn't it?
If people were wrongly prevented from voting, or if legitimate votes were mis-counted or not counted at all, we need to know so the wrongdoers can be held accountable, and to help prevent this from happening again.
Members of Congress are demanding an investigation to answer this question. Join me in supporting their call, at:
http://www.moveon.org/investigatethevote/
Thanks.
Problems
There were serious problems with the election, some that bother me is the closing of the polls in Ohio, they left the polls open in heavily republican areas untill almost 11pm, these polls should have closed at 7pm, and in the democratic areas, less affluent, they closed the polls right at 7pm and cut off every voter that was waiting. If you remember, and some of us won't Kerry was winning Ohio till around 8:30, I remember because that's when I went to my congressmans victory part. The other major issue is that in Florida, and maybe Ohio too, the absentee ballots did not have Kerry's name as a choice for President, there are some major problems here.
Like GWB, my gut tells me som
Like GWB, my gut tells me something ain't right about these sudden shifts in the exit polling.
Something isnt right that is for sure
There is something not right about Ohio and Florida.. The media is all hush hush.. no one will talk about it .. for as many voters that have spoken of fraud and supression our Government needs to take action to make us voters feel secure about our vote and that our votes are counted... They need to recount Florida and Ohio and they need to do it openly to the public in the public eye.. With so many so unsecure over this election how can we move on to the elections coming up in 2006 and 2008 if we cant trust them ..I feel that John Kerry did the right thing and not drawing this out and lurking about in the background gathering the evidence but I feel that there is fraud and this election was stolen just like 2000 ..only this time it was done in small bursts and it will probably never be proven ...
Losers
When is everyone going to stop your f*ing whining and do something about this election? Huh? Because if you don't, your vote won't mean shit in the next election.
Bob Fertik, why don't you blast a sendmail to everyone on this site with the phone # and email addresses of the senior editors at the NY Times, the WP, etc. demanding coverage of the recount?
If they won't respond to that, why doesn't ANSWER organize a rally, like this weekend, in NYC or DC, to demand attention to the recount.
The train has left the station. If we don't take action N..O..W, the CIA will become the next Geheime Staatspolizei.
These blogs are stupid.
Voting machine code inspection lawsuit
There's been progress on voting machine fraud. A Washington state attorney is filing a lawsuit to make the proprietary voting machine software public so that it may be inspected by experts.
Entire article at Democratic Underground.