Bush vs Facts - Social Security
Fact-checking Bush on Social Security
President exaggerates problems in retirement system
By Rex Nutting, CBS.MarketWatch.com
Jan. 11, 2005
WASHINGTON (CBS.MW) - President Bush made several factual errors Tuesday about Social Security's long-term financing problems at a photo op event designed to educate the public about the retirement system.
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Bush vs. facts
· Bush: "As a matter of fact, by the time today's workers who are in their mid-20s begin to retire, the system will be bankrupt. So if you're 20 years old, in your mid-20s, and you're beginning to work, I want you to think about a Social Security system that will be flat bust, bankrupt, unless the United States Congress has got the willingness to act now."
The facts: The Social Security system cannot go "bankrupt," for it has no creditors. By law, the trustees will continue to pay reduced benefits even if the trust fund is exhausted. Payroll taxes will continue to come in and benefits will continue to be paid.
According to the trustees' intermediate economic forecast (neither doom nor boom), the trust fund will be able to pay about 73 percent of scheduled benefits in 2042 and about 68 percent of scheduled benefits in 2078.
Future presidents and Congresses could also choose to fully fund scheduled retirement benefits from general tax revenue.
· Bush: "Most younger people in America think they'll never see a dime."
The facts: Social Security says younger people will see a lot more than a dime. Their retirement benefits - even under a "flat-bust" system -- will be significantly higher than today's benefits in real terms.
For low-income Americans, currently scheduled benefits for those who retire in 2080 are $19,906 per year in 2004 dollars. If Social Security can pay only 68 percent of those benefits, that would be $13,536 per year, compared with benefits of $8,804 for low-income retirees who retired last year.
For the highest earners, Social Security is currently promising $53,411 per year for those who retire in 2080 (or $36,319 per year if Social Security can pay only 68 percent). Current maximum benefits are $21,891 per year for those who retired last year.
· Bush: "In the year 2018, in order to take care of baby boomers like me and -- (laughter) -- some others I see out there -- (laughter) -- the money going out is going to exceed the money coming in."
The facts: According to the SSA, costs are projected to exceed income, including tax revenues and interest income from the trust funds' bonds, starting in 2028, not 2018. The 2018 date is when tax revenues alone no longer meet costs; workers have been paying extra taxes since 1983 to build up the trust funds' assets for just this eventuality.
· Bush: "The problem is, is that times have changed since 1935. Then, most women did not work outside the house, and the average life expectancy was about 60 years old -- which for a guy 58 years old, must have been a little discouraging. Today, Americans, fortunately, are living longer and longer. I mean, we're living way beyond 60 years old, and most women are working outside the house. Things have shifted."
The facts: According to the SSA, the life expectancy for a 65-year-old man in 1940 was 76.9 years. Today, a man aged 65 can be expected to live to 81. Most of the increase in life expectancy in the past half century has been for infants, not for the elderly.
The increase in the percentage of women working outside the home has boosted Social Security's resources, rather than depleted them. Today, many women who worked receive a widow's pension rather than their own earned benefits. All the payroll taxes they ing someone else's retirement.
Rex Nutting is Washington bureau chief of CBS.MarketWatch.com.
The article can be found at CBS MarketWatch, but you will probably be required to register for free access. Go to Economy & Politics->Politics and Legislation and look under the article heading “Social Security’s Debt Impact” for a subtitle of “Plus: Bush vs. facts”. In any case, nearly the whole article has been posted above.
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A synopsis of this article with additional information can be accessed directly at the Daily Howler...
NUTTING GETS IT RIGHT! Amazing! One reporter penned the piece which should have been in every paper:
SATURDAY, JANUARY 15, 2005
NUTTING GETS IT RIGHT: Omigod–somebody did it! Somebody wrote the “fact check” report which should have appeared in every newspaper after Bush’s performance last Tuesday. “Bush exaggerates a few facts about Social Security,” said the headline–a headline which was excessively polite. But Rex Nutting actually spotted the news which came from Bush’s ballyhooed forum. Readers, when an American president convenes a big forum and proceeds to lie in the public’s face, that’s the biggest news story that day! As far as we know, only Nutting, among major scribes, bothered to sit down and write it.
...
Okay, the point is, as we all know, there is no "crisis"; it's a deliberate distortion (read: lie) in an attempt to mislead the American public to obtain support for Bush's misguided attempt to dismantle Social Security. There is no problem until 2048 (or even 2058 by another estimate), and even those estimates are "conservative"--based on gloomy projections of the performance of the economy! Even then, benefits are merely reduced and could be entirely compensated for by applying no more money (from the General Fund) than we're currently spending on 'war'.
We can, and should, visit some attention on reducing program costs and adjusting the payroll tax in a modest way; which would extinguish even the mild funding problems that do exist. We also need to realize that if we allow younger people to redirect some of their Social Security taxes into individual accounts, that represents a reduction in the planned revenue of the Social Security fund--and that very well could exacerbate the mild funding problem...
Recognize too, that to actually switch from the existing Social Security program to "individual accounts", will cost 2 trillion... well, actually, and this is important, that 2 trillion is just the costs over the first decade... the second decade would require an additional 3 trillion, and 5 trillion the next decade and 5 trillion in the next after that!!! Umm... while a trillion may not sound like much (?), a trillion here, a trillion there, and pretty soon it adds up to "real" money! Sure, we could always abort the process in the middle... but how many trillion would that waste? We just cannot let Bush monkey with this program (and somehow, we desperately need to restore taxation of the wealthy to reasonable levels since we cannot sustain the current deficit spending and resulting oppressive national debt--but that's another issue).
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The rest of the story...
"[Bush] said Social Security, swelled by the surge of baby boomers who will start collecting benefits in a few years, will be paying out more money than it takes in by 2018. Bush said the program will be "bankrupt" by 2042."
What Bush forgot to say: ... Social Security will go 'bankrupt' by 2042, unless we fix it today, then it will go 'bankrupt' in 2006.
Speaking of Bush v. Facts
I think the Supreme Court is hearing that case next month. I predict a ruling in favor for Bush.
Clinton said that Social Security was in trouble
The demographic challenges facing Social Security can't be ignored. In 1999, Bill Clinton said that Social Security would have to cut benefits by 25% to stay solvent. It is not a crisis as the repubs suggest but it can't be ignored either as some Democrats suggest. There are no perfect solutions but a combination of benefit cuts and personal accounts could work. I reject tax increases out of hand because the payroll tax is already 15.3% on the first dollar which is too high.
He also proposed
using part of the budget surplus to fix it. Was that done? If Clinton managed to do that and the system is in trouble now, it's because of George W. Bush and his stupid policies.
And no, democrats don't need to be supporting private savings accounts. It's great for Wall Street whores, but allowing citizens to gamble away their security is a stupid idea. We've got enough to contend with, in supporting those who do pay into the system. We shouldn't be forced to also support those who gambled theirs away because they listened to stupid people.
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
Wall Street whores
I wouldn't want to invest with a Wall Street whore either. And I wouldn't support a reform program that allowed private citizens to gamble with their security. With that said, I don't think that investing in a well-diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds over a 40 year period contains too much risk for one's retirement account. The investment choices will have to be made very simple and there will have to be significant standardization of these accounts otherwise they will be more trouble than they are worth to the respected financial institutions in this country (otherwise known as Wall Street whores).
And no, Bill Clinton did not use any general revenue funds to shore up Social Security. Social Security has always been a "stand-alone" program with revenues being more than enough to cover benefits. 1983 was the exception and Senators Moynihan and Dole crafted a compromise of benefit cuts and tax increases to save the system. Reagan signed the bill that same year.
Clinton did propose or at least discuss using the projected surplus to save social security. Had he not been embroiled by neverending political attacks maybe he could have done something - I would much prefer that he had been able to be involved in the debate. To date, general revenue has never been used for social security and I don't how I feel about starting to use general revenues now - the $2 billion is too much.
Why should we trust King Screwitup
to reform anything? Hell, everything he touches falls apart.
I don't WANT my grandchildren to have to pay for deadbeats who have gambled their security away. I shouldn't have to. It's that simple.
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
Necco, I think that we're arg
Necco, I think that we're arguing with a true-blue DLC-er centrist who just wants to show us Liberals how wrong we are. As with most of the DLC-er's attitudes, he's "right" and we're "left" behind.
I don't trust this plan
What will this activity do to the market though. I'm don't know much about stocks -- but it seems like suddenly funneling all this money into them could be a non-profittable mess.
Like all Bush's plans it stinks.
It's really amazing to hear r
It's really amazing to hear regressives bad mouth Bill Clinton for everything bad that has happened under Dubya, but when it comes to pushing something they want, they can always find a Clinton quote that supports them.
If you hate the guy, then stop using him to support your bullshit ideas. You can't have it both ways.
Simple solution
Basically there is no social security crisis. That is another of Bush's nazi style "big lies".
Social security will be solvent for decades. If a shortfall ever does materialize then we simply have to do one of two things:
1) Start taxing all of a person's income rather than taxing all of a middle class person's income and giving the rich a big fat tax dodge. Or
2) Start mean's testing the system so millionaire's aren't recieving benefits.
As the system stands now it is just designed so the rich cop out of paying taxes on most of their income while still receiving elevated benefits. Social Security payroll taxes are only paid on the first $84,900 of wages. So if you make $100 billion dollars a year or if you make $84,900 you pay the same amount of tax. How ridiculous is that?!
There is no social security crisis
True statement. The problem is a long-term demographic one. I agree with you that we should raise the income ceiling (NOT the payroll tax rate) on which FICA is assessed. I don't think it should be unlimited however, because the payroll tax is 15.3 % on the first dollar earned. Add that to a 36% income tax and a 6% state income tax (if you have one) and you're at 57.3%! I don't think Michael Moore would want to pay that much!
Your solution is unworkable for a simple reason: You can't ask someone who makes a million dollars to pay $124,000 in social security per year and then means test that guy out of the program completely when he retires. There is something fundamentally unfair about that idea. Plus, means testing would turn social security into a welfare system and it was intended to be for everybody. People who get a check do not have any negative stigma attached to receiving that important benefit.
There are other reasons to oppose means-testing such as it encourages bad behaviors, stifles the savings rate, makes people enter into convoluted financial arrangements with their employer's deferred compensation plans after retirement, and many others. Could you imagine if you saved money all your life and your brother blew all his money. How would you feel if your social security was taken away from you for engaging in the kind of behavior we should be encouraging and your brother got his social security as a reward for being irresponsible?
Wow, great argument
Michael Moore, huh? Is that supposed to add leverage to your argument? The only thing you are accomplishing here is convincing us that you are shill.
All your arguments are typical anti-welfare, pro-social Darwinism fodder that we've heard SO many times from the Regressives.
I used Michael Moore
because he is the only liberal I can think of who actually is willing to say he thinks taxes should be much higher. I was making the point that even he might think 57.3% is too much. What do you think? I think it's too much.
You are unbelievably uninformed if you think my arguments are anti-welfare or pro-social Darwinism. I do not think that government should means-test social security. Ted Kennedy doesn't think we should means-test social security OR medicare. Is he anti-welfare or a social Darwinist? do you know what those statements mean?
You're right, I'm uninformed
You're right, I'm uninformed and illiterate. Congratulations, you win. Bye.
Just another "one issue" trol
Just another "one issue" troll who's been banned once, and has reincarnated himself.
He's right Bill, I'm totally
He's right Bill, I'm totally inferior to him. I didn't realize that he was the only one who can read a book, or a magazine, or a newspaper, or browse the internet, or watch a news program. I've tried to faithfully do all those things, seriously, and it obviously isn't enough to match his superior intellect. Maybe I should just throw in the towel and register Republican, because I don't know what else I can do to educate myself.
I'm just lucky that he steered me toward this epiphany. Oh shit, am I allowed to say "epiphany", or do I have to play dumb again? Sorry, I really have to stop this if I want to be a stand up 'Merkun.
Silence please, while I bask in his superiorness...
So be it. You are henceforth
So be it. You are henceforth known as "grovelmonkey."
Well, there is a crisis with malpractice insurance
let them be the guinea pigs.
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
Frist is already telling Americans to make sacrifices
I'm even going to get into who that reminds me of.
Link
Frist should be among the first to stand in line and 'take medicine.' All those nifty health benefits and pension plans we pay for when it comes to government officials should be scrapped.
Moreover, the idea that Congress should be able to vote in its own little wage increase every time they take a dump (based on inflation? I don't think so, buddy!) should be scrapped.
It is IMMORAL - nay, AMORAL - that these legislators who will NEVER have to worry about their healthcare, their retirement, or putting food in their mouths FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES are telling the American people to 'line up and take their medicine' to 'save Social Security Insurance' when they are robbing us BLIND.
I wish to HELL that Jeebus would come again and make a very special garden for people like Frist to rule over, to spare the rest of us from their barbarism. I hear Iraq is beautiful this time of year. It needs leadership, and it's rich in oil.
(And before some republican comes in here and twists what I wrote to mean that I wish people like Frist harm - that is not what I posted. What I posted was a sincere prayer for divine intervention and freedom from the madness sweeping this nation - and I'm wishing for people like that, that Jeebus would pay them well for the 'sacrifice' by rewarding them with all the riches they've been fighting like hell to attain. Just think of the utopia they could set up there without democrats to hold them back. Bliss.)
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
Also
what about low wage earners? Consider this.....
snip
For example, the 2000 Poverty Threshold for a family of four in the continental United States with two related children was 17,463. However, Poverty Thresholds are misleading because they do not provide an accurate picture of what a "poor" family's life is like. According to the National Center for Children in poverty, most families of four would have to make twice theri assigned Poverty Threshold in order to provide their children with basic necessities, such as housing, food, and health care.
snip
http://www.censusscope.org/us/chart_poverty.html
What's George's plan for these families? Hummm?
He's going to take the famili
He's going to take the family's SS money and invest it for them, so that they can become a part of his "ownership society." Then, he's going to test the kids under NCLB, until they are real whizzes at passing tests. They won't have any real-world skills, but they will be able to pass tests until their family's SS "investment" matures.
That's the way Dubya has been able to succeed in life: he got really good at passing tests, and his family's investments keep him fed. So, in his *mind* this system will work for anyone.
LOL
I like your lesson of the day!
The sad thing is that our young people are dummied down -- probably because the school corporations need to pass testing. (And this is another good reason for us to get into the schools and educate the students on being Democrat -- maybe that can be tomorrow's lesson of the day)