Immigration Smoke Screens..................
Ok everyone. I know that immigration, illegal and legal, is a sensative issue but let me explain how I have been viewing it as a media and political standpoint. Have you ever noticed that when the media or the public are taking too much interest in a sensative subject such as the stimulus plan, the iraq war, refugees being brought in, economic recession, or any other topic that has been a real hot bed of conflict, that the government and media work together to bring a "new" report on illegal immigration. Documentaries and CNN will have a "new" special on illigal immigration and now it is adding the "economic downfall" to it trying to use the illegal immigration issue as a scape goat for this recession just as they did for the refugees being shipped into America - over 100,000 of them- as a result of the War in Iraq and those of Afganistan. In 2007 and 2008, there was a small report of refugees from these countries being brought here for "their safety" and a good faith agreement. These refugees were placed in Government housing, given a stipend each month, free healthcare, food stamps, and temporary (unlimited) visas to work in this country until they can return to their own. Most placed in major cities. If they do not want to return to their own countries, they will be considered in placement for Registered Alien status at little or no cost to them. After 8 yrs or less, of resident aliens, they will have the right to apply for citizenship.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18944557/
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2008/03/america_still_mishandling_iraq.cfm
And we are worried about Mexico and their illegal aliens?! When the media gets too nosey for their own business the govt will issue an important statement on illegal immigrants and the border. The illegals are not taking our jobs people. Many of them have lost theirs, aren't allowed to collect SS benefits they helped pay in to, no unemployment, can not collect govt assistance from the state ( North Carolina does not allow and hasn't in the past 5yrs, one of the first states to verify eligibility for people of foreign birth) or any job search assistance. They have taken the best way of tracking illegals, the drivers license. But, if you want to really be mad about job loss, it is not the illegal hispanic aliens you need to worry about but the jobs and companies that have been outsourced to foreign countries thanks to NAFTA and CAFTA. The ones you need to worry about also are the refugees that are protected from job loss because of their refugee status. Are we going to beat this dead horse or do something about it? I see everyday where legal immigrants - many of hispanic origin - put down, berated, or called names just because they are hispanic and these people do not know if they are legal, citizens, or what. Because of bad press and media hype, the mentality for most Americans has been "All hispanics are illegal and they are all taking our jobs!" How can that be if there are no jobs to take? I see constantly where people that have lost their jobs making $10 to $25 an hour are collecting unemployment but have turned down available jobs paying less than what they were making but would rather take unemployment which is a 3rd of their income? That makes no sense to me. But these people would rather sit back and do the blame game for their misfortune. There is a company in our town that had jobs available in minor manufacturing and the packaging department. They had 20 positions available. It was second and third shift and paid $7 per hr with a chance for full time employment. This company also works with Everify. The job was only posted to our local unemployment agency. The man recieved over 100 applications. The ad specified $7 per hour. When he looked over the apps only a small handful put down that amount, the rest put down over $10 or requesting supervisory positions. The company did not fill all the positions because when he called those that truly wanted to work they showed up but the others he had asked to come in refused because of the pay rate. The average ratio of people that applied he had posted by ethnicity was 2 to 10 (white to black and only 3 of other origin). So, really, do we still want to run the "illegals are stealing our jobs", chant or do we really want to work. The old adage "Beggers can not be chosers" is a good one to remember now. Why don't we look to the companies who have left the country or have outsourced our jobs to foreign markets instead of worrying more about illegal aliens in the work force? Why don't we help those companies that have stayed in the US and reward them with tax breaks for hiring so many people each year, Why don't we do the same and take what is offered? Why do we think we must be paid more? Hey, there are thousands of people, legal citizens, that have been with companies for over 15 to 25 yrs who have lost their jobs. Are they looking for the same pay rate as when they were let go or are they looking to start over again and learn to live within their means or are they just whining about their situation and blaming their troubles on others rather than on their own greed and egos? Immigration reform must happen soon. We have controlled the flood of illegals into the country substantially over the past 7 yrs. From 1995 to 2000 the average amount of illegal immigrants entering from the Mexico border was anywhere 5,000 a day to over 90,000 in a week or less. Most of the illegals crossing the border are not only "Mexicans", a large majority of them are from Colombia, Honduras, and Guatamala. The amount of arrests, removals and deportations, drug apprenhensions, and false document apprehensions at the borders and ports have been the highest in many years and they attribute it to the increased man power, the new technology, and the increased amount of police dogs added. The amount of attempted fence jumpers and coyotes smuggeling illegals in has decreased greatly. The amount caught in one day has been brought down to under 3000. The yearly stats from 2007 to 2008 have shown a significant decrease as well. The amount of "foreign born" applicants to social service offices in any state has decreased significantly. Many states, such as ours, use verification programs to stop illegals from abusing the system or even using it all together. Since 2007 there are no more "anchor babies". If you have noticed, many families have been seperated because of parents being deported just because they are illegal but the children can stay here because they were born before the laws and the parents want a better life for their kids. Most of the family members or parents that have been deported have never had any criminal history, have paid taxes correctly since the issue of the ITIN's or W7's to pay their taxes, and even have volunteered in their own communities. They have tried to apply legally to the US to becomne resident aliens or citizens and have been denied for any reason they can think of or some political issue their own country will use to extort money or other things from them. But, we are worried about these illegals? The ones we need to worry about the government looks away just to keep "good relations" with their countries. Those are the ones I worry about. So before you go looking to the hispanic population for the "job loss" you need to look past them and find the companies that have their "employment interests" in foreign countries. That is where your jobs are.


Welcome to Democrats.com
Welcome to Democrats.com Holly, and thanks for the objective information on who is really taking away American jobs.
Welcome, Holly!
Thanks for your great thread and bringing up several good points
regarding immigration.
Regarding those who immigrate from Mexico, please remember that they
are facing a horrendous crimewave that has been sweeping the
entire country for over two years now, with the " war on drugs".
The cartels are battling it out with the police,local and federal,
anywhere at any time. Thousands of people have been killed,
5,612 in 2008 alone.
http://tinyurl.com/chke76
The kidnappings, murders and harrassment of tourists have spread from the
border towns to the entire country. Tijuana, Rosarito Beach, and Ensenada are
nearly empty of tourists, which is killing their economy.
Little wonder they travel north to seek work.
What would happen if pot was legalized in Mexico?
It wouldn't solve the entire problem, but it sure would be a start.
Thanks for the welcome........
I know what is going on down there. My husband is from there (and yes he was a legal Resident before I met him) We go every year to visit family down there and we drive from NC straight to the border in Matamoros to a place called Tuxpan, Veracruz. We hear and read about the horror stories of what is going on all the time. We are seriously thinking on skipping this year ends trip just out of safety for our kids and ourselves.
When we started going down there 17 yrs ago, the streets were lined with vendors and carts, now with the new laws, no vendors without permits and no one is allowed to sell on sidewalks or streets that are used for transportation. There are no more vendors or make shift tent stores in Mexicon city either. They have designated areas for that and they are only allowed during certain seasons and holidays.
The use of coyotes to get illegals across the border are almost non existent now. The fear of rape, murder, and forced into the cartell is what has detered more people from wanting to cross the border illegally. This is why the use of false documentation has increased and those have been caught in record numbers now. We went to visit a neice that lives near the coast back in an area that is way off the beaten path but is very populized. On this one unfinished main road there have been several large ranch style luxury homes being built. Some friends of our family have been hired to work and build it. They have described secret passageways, secret rooms and doors, and areas that look like large underground living quarters and storage houses. The homes above look very nice, even for American standards but they are just a facade for what is under ground.
I agree on the fact of legalizing Marijuana in Mexico and in the States. The reason being is, if it is made legal then the trade of it must be legal and taxed which in turn controls the market and even the blackmarket would be easier to trace. When you supply a demand "legally" the need to use dangerous and manipulative means to supply that market is lessened or made non existent and the charges of illegal marketing or shipping is higher. The price of the product is even lessened and taxed which cuts the profits. Hey, the govt is going to want it's share of the tax and tarrifs so they will work harder to get it. LOL
Before, it was the gangs in those areas, mostly small time wannabe's. Then there was the Mexican Mafia which is replaced by the Cartell, which I am sure there will be another in the next 5 to 10 yrs that will replace them. Fear works wonders when it comes to these types of people and when you have millions with less than an 8th grade education it is easier to manipulate.
But, to get back on topic, many of the illegals that are trying to cross will try to do it legally, atleast twice in 5yrs, then they will chance their lives to cross illegally. They are not worried about border patrols or the minute men, they are more worried about the "wanderers" from the cartell or those that prowl the border (their own country men) on the US side to steal, rape, and even kill. Small timers or individuals that see it as easy pickens.
Many of our American manufacturers that moved to Mexico are not in areas where the jobs are needed. Many of these small pueblas and ranchitos are the ones that need the work, but you will only find these companies in large cities and tourist areas. But the least of my worries are the illegal hispanics crossing our borders to "take jobs" we don't have. I am worried about those companies that are leaving the US and hiring foreign people to work for them and then the companies are getting tax breaks, shipping tarrifs waived, and free port and warehouse transfers. That needs to stop. Tax the heck out of them if they want to take our jobs over seas. Charge higher tarrifs and port fees. Hold them in port for more than 2 wks at a time before they can deposit and distribute their products to the US markets and investigate each and every package. Then let's see if it is worth it to manufacture over seas. The harder to supply a demand the less interest in their foreign made products which in turn will make them lose money because they will have to drop the prices and eat the costs. They won't want to do that very long. Heck, we did it this way back in the early 70's all the way up to 1980, why not do it now?
Thanks again for the welcome all.
This is interesting information, Holly.
You have firsthand knowledge of the situation down south.
I really miss taking trips to northern Baja.
We would drive down there at least once or twice a year
to shop, surf and visit.
Last August, I visited Jalisco for a week.
I felt very safe near the large resort areas.
After returning home, I found out the violence
had spread to Jalisco and the Yucatan peninsula, near
Merida.
Yes, those big houses sound like ideal hideouts for the cartels'
hierarchy.
Regarding charging higher fees for those companies that
outsource our jobs;
I believe President Obama is going to do just that!
:-)
Illegal Immigration
As a Tucsonan living in Arizona I'm very aware of the problems that are caused by illegal immigration. Most important of these problems is the diseases that the illegals are briging back into this country. You can deny the truth of this statement if you so choose but it will be at your own peril.
And your proof of this
And your proof of this preposterous claim is...?
Are "legal" immigrants more healthy than their "illegal" counterparts? Are US-citizen international travelers screened for disease before being allowed to re-enter the country?
Maybe we should start screening Arizona (and ALL Red State) citizens for disease before allowing them to travel to other states -- and especially to Washington D.C., as in the case of McCain. Fortunately, bigotry and neconservatism don't appear to be communicable diseases.
Yet another xenophobic lie posited as "fact."
Bill where do folks get these strange notions.
Its of course all bull. I do like your idea of screening all red state residents before they travel anywhere. This fallacy the neocons are promoting is very disgusting.
Immigration and disease...
Immigrants who enter the country with a valid visa(many kinds of visas)are screened for many of the diseases that are still out there in many countries. TB and the like. Refugees seeking sanctuary and given it were not so screened.
Illegal aliens may be carriers of these diseases and may not have even applied for visa pre-screening.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
The U.S. does not require
The U.S. does not require visas for all tourists, so any medical "screening" process is at best hit and miss:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program
NAFTA/CAFTA provisions and regulations add yet another layer of confusion to the visa and entry process. Also, "screening" often does not include clinical tests, but relies on questionnaires, or computer databases. Returning U.S. citizens (who may have contracted a disease abroad) are not "screened" upon re-entry.
The assumption that ALL "illegal" immigrants are fleeing criminals, carriers of disease, or both, is just another misleading half-truth perpetuated by neocons, rednecks, and xenophobes.
Without question, foreigners residing in the U.S. illegally are breaking our laws. The source of the problem, however, are the corporations and other wealthy employers who entice them to come here. The shame is that many anti-immigration xenophobes apply the false "disease/criminal" stigma to legal immigrants and tourists, and to natural-born and naturalized U.S. citizens of non-white ethnicity.
The Mexican disease thing is real...
I've been to Mexico several times, mostly to Cabo, and can report that EVERY time that I return to the states I have a huge headache and aversion to bright light, loud noises, and Tequila for several days afterward.
LOL!
LOL! Welcome back Grok...
How's life in paradise
Went with the wife and kids to Kauai about 3 months ago. Did you see me wave? Actually, it was over election day. It made it a very nice vacation. Had to drink our champagne out of hotel water glasses on the beach watching the sunset.
I wondered who that
I wondered who that lilly-white dude drinking on the beach was...;-)
You have to be living still in 1898
Grinch,
You have no idea what actually is required to go to other countries and to come into this country anymore. Back in the 50's and 60's anyone going to the Asian, Africa, or South America, was required to get a "pre" tetanous shot and a dose of pinicillin before they went. When you returned, you were required to have a full physical and have it prepared to send the results to the immigration department and health department before your passport could be validated again. But not many made weekly world tours. Polio was the biggest fear as well as "sexually" transmitted diseases. During the late 70's and early 80's many of the restrictions and requirements were much more laxed, hence, AIDS. Due to being part of a global market that the Repubs desperately thought we should be a part of. Then came NAFTA and CAFTA, and tons of restrictions have been over looked for over 20 yrs. Diseased illegals are not my biggest fear, the guys that travel overseas for pedophile sex, fetishes, same sex with younger men or women, or for the mail order brides, those are the ones that scare me the most! With their passports marked as "frequent" travelers, they are not required to have a physical but every 4 to 5 yrs. Don't believe everything this government is telling you or is on their website of "info". They are leading you on. Stand up at the border or the international portal in New York and watch and listen to what these guys and girls will ask or require before allowing someone into the US. You would be astonished of what they WILL approve over what they Won't approve. How do you think the guys from 9/11 got into the country so easily? Many of these countries have "relations" with the US and are approved based on the relations. Nothing more.
Don't believe everything these politicians tell you and definitely avoid media gossip. It is time to take the info you find and read between the lines
Poodle Karma
Actually, my experience with visa applicants is over is 30 years
old. Have been in touch with other family members who have traveled here and some who have applied for, and received, green cards for permanent residence.
All were required to submit to a medical exam and get an x-ray(tb) prior to receiving their entry visas. Does not apply to most tourist visas or returning citizens from overseas.
Illegals, whether they come in from Mexico or Canada, do not apply for visas. They can come in illegally without any checks whatsoever. I mentioned that people entering as refugees may not be medically cleared.
Disease, under single-payer healthcare, would not be a problem for any of us.
Health status is only a small problem, not a large one. We have areas of this country now where people have all sorts of disease problems and these are citizens.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Illegal Immigrants
After all those jobs going to other countrys (outsourcing) and Americans are now going to have to share what we are paying for (Stimulus) with Illegals (no E-verify) I wonder am I living in an instution for the insane or is the Government insane. It is now well past time when America government and Business starts thinking about the United States of America in stead of everything else. Stop outsoursing, stop illegal hiring. What a good start.
Stop out sourcing and Everify is hilarious
The company my husband works for subscribed to E verify this year. Believe it or not it only has caught 2 illegal aliens and 2 Americans, one black the other white. One of the "illegals" is actually legal and apparently since he submitted for citizenship his record had been taken off the data base and replaced with pending and had to go get a new document to show to the employer. They went to the Federal site and guess what, a quarter of the those that have been subject to the everify process that were white,black and natural born citizens, were working under someone elses Identity and using false documentation to get jobs! Can't wait to see how many more AMERICANS get found verses the "illegals". Some have been posted as fugitives, charged with Identity theft, or were involved in some sort of crime that the feds are looking for. So how well is everify doing? I would say, as catching wanted criminals, pretty darn good. For stopping illegal hiring, eh. The only thing we need is to stop outsourcing our jobs, tighter restraints and taxes on NAFTA and CAFTA, and quit showing favoritism to only certain countries when it comes to visas, greencards, and citizenship.
And dude from Cabo, that happens everywhere in Mexico. The prescription for that is a deep tissue message, beautiful woman, and a huge Tbone steak. (Handsome hot man for us women)Other than that, can't help ya.
Just NOW thinking about diseases?
I wish you'd thought of that when you got here in the 1300 hundreds!! Maybe My people would still be here!
Can you EVER change your thinking? Can you EVER see what the TRUE causes of all of the pain and suffering? It's just GREED.
Greed for land, for money, precious metals, power, manipulation of the largest slice of the public.. It's just complete and total madness. If you could just STOP trying to have more than you need....
There would be enough for everybody, and more time to enjoy it.
Reply to :Just NOW thinking about diseases?
aicram62, I am with you in the same idea. But, I can't blame the past for our current situations because in 1300 most of the European idiots of that time knew nothing about it. Black plague, red plague, measles, dyptheria, and sexually transmitted diseases such as cyphalus and such. But, we CAN learn from out past to not repeat it. Just as George Santayana said "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it". Greed was a major factor since the beginning of organized culture. Until we learn from our past and evolve above our ancient ancestors primal need to divide and conquer, this will be a similar reoccurence.
But, for the deal of illegal immigration, what is your stance on the current situation and the smoke screens the govt has been using to divert us from the what is going on behind the sceens by using "immigration" as a smoke screen to stir up more turmoil with all the nationalities in this country, legal or not, and causing a new form of prejudice, instead of us paying attention to what is really being done. Bush's administration was a perfect example of how that worked.
Thank you for you defense.
Blessed Be.