International Herald Tribune Says U.S. Peace Movement Happy to Keep Iraq War Going

Take a look at this article:

Obama's Thoughts Evolve on US Troops in Iraq By Thom Shanker, International Herald Tribune Washington - On the campaign trail, Senator Barack Obama offered a pledge that electrified and motivated his liberal base, vowing to "end the war" in Iraq.

True, and important, but he also made the details clear to anyone trying to find out. These details:

But as he moves closer to the White House, President-elect Obama is making it clearer than ever that tens of thousands of American troops will be left behind in Iraq, even if he can make good on his campaign promise to pull all combat forces out within 16 months. "I said that I would remove our combat troops from Iraq in 16 months, with the understanding that it might be necessary - likely to be necessary - to maintain a residual force to provide potential training, logistical support, to protect our civilians in Iraq," the Illinois Democrat said this week as he introduced his national security team.

His website also includes as a mission for the non-combat troops: "conduct targeted counter-terrorism missions against al Qaeda in Iraq and protect American diplomatic and civilian personnel." All without any combat of course.

Publicly at least, Obama has not set a firm number for that "residual force," a phrase certain to become central to the debate on the way ahead in Iraq, though one of his national security advisers, Richard Danzig, said during the campaign that it could amount to 30,000 to 55,000 troops. Nor has Obama laid out a timetable beyond 16 months for troop drawdowns or suggested when he believes a time might come for a declaration that the war is over. In the meantime, military planners are drawing up tentative schedules aimed at meeting both Obama's goal for withdrawing combat troops, with a target of May 2010, and the Dec. 31, 2011, date for sending the rest of American troops home that is spelled out in the new agreement between the United States and the Iraqi government. That status-of-forces agreement remains subject to change, by mutual agreement, and U.S. Army planners acknowledge privately that they are examining projections that could see the number of Americans hovering between 30,000 and 50,000 - and some say as high as 70,000 - for a substantial time even beyond 2011.

Has anybody told the Iraqis that? Or the Americans? Are you aware that the Iraqis were also told that they can vote the treaty out of existence in June and that by the end of June the treaty requires all troops to get out of cities, towns, and localities?

As U.S. combat forces decline in numbers and more provinces are turned over to Iraqi control, these military planners say, those security forces will remain reliant on significant numbers of Americans for training, supplies, logistics, intelligence and transportation for a long time to come. There always was a tension, if not a bit of a contradiction, in the two parts of Obama's campaign platform to "end the war" by withdrawing all combat troops by May 2010. To be sure, Obama was careful to say that the drawdowns he was promising included only combat troops. But supporters who keyed on the language of ending the war might be forgiven if they thought that would mean bringing home all of the troops.

Particularly as nobody has ever explained what a non-combat troop is or spotted one in Iraq. That is, until now...

Planners at the Pentagon say that it is possible that Obama's goal could be accomplished at least in part by relabeling some units, so that those currently counted as combat troops could be "re-missioned," their efforts redefined as training and support for the Iraqis.

Well we DID vote for change, didn't we? I'm sure that relabeling combat troops as non-combat troops will satisfy that demand just fine. We'll be so pleased, in fact, that if the non-combat troops end up basically engaging in combat we'll understand.

In Iraq today, there are 15 brigades defined as combat forces in this debate, with one on its way home. But the overall number of troops on the ground is more than 50 brigade equivalents, for a total of 146,000 troops, including service and support personnel. Even now, after the departure of the five "surge" brigades that President George W. Bush sent to Iraq in January 2006, the overall number of troops in Iraq remains higher than when Bush ordered the troop increase, owing to the number of support and service personnel remaining.

So we can pull out all the combat troops and still leave most of the troops behind? And yet we need to relabel combat troops as noncombat troops in order to leave some of them too? This seems like a lot of bother. Why not just call off the withdrawal and make things easier for everyone. (Except the people of Iraq, I mean). (Oh, and the troops.) (Um, and the American people.)

At his news conference in Chicago on Monday, Obama emphasized his willingness to listen to the advice from senior officers and that of his new national security team, which includes Defense Secretary Robert Gates, the first Pentagon chief in history asked to continue serving under a newly elected president; Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; and, as national security adviser, General James Jones, the retired four-star Marine officer who served as NATO's supreme commander.

Well that should move us away from more war for sure!

Since the election, Obama has held unannounced consultations with both Gates and Mullen, described by Obama aides and Pentagon officials as having focused less on tactics and operations and more on broad, strategic views for U.S. national security. Obama telephoned Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, the prime minister of Iraq, according to the Obama transition office. To date, there has been no significant criticism from the anti-war left of the Democratic Party of the prospect that Obama will keep tens of thousands of troops in Iraq for at least several years.

READ THAT AGAIN. THEY REDUCE THE PEACE MOVEMENT TO A WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THEN POINT OUT THAT IT HAS NOT CRITICIZED OBAMA, WHICH IS OF COURSE COUNTER TO THE CURRENT U.S. DEFINITION OF A POLITICAL PARTY. WHAT ABOUT OUR VOICES??? WRITE TO THE INTERNATIONAL HERALD TRIBUNE: letters@iht.com

At the Pentagon and the military headquarters in Iraq, the response to the statements this week from Obama and his national security team has been one of relief; the words sounded to them like he would take a measured approach on the question of troop levels. "I believe that 16 months is the right time frame, but, as I've said consistently, I will listen to the recommendations of my commanders," Obama said at the news conference Monday. "And my No.1 priority is making sure that our troops remain safe in this transition phase, and that the Iraqi people are well served by a government that is taking on increased responsibility for its own security." An apparent evolution of Obama's thinking can be heard in contrast to comments he made in July, when he called a news conference to lay out his Iraq policy in unambiguous terms. "I intend to end this war," he said then. "My first day in office I will bring the Joint Chiefs of Staff in, and I will give them a new mission, and that is to end this war - responsibly, deliberately, but decisively." And in a news conference that month in Amman, Obama acknowledged that the American troop increase had bolstered Iraqi security but declared that he would not hesitate to overrule American commanders and redirect troops to Afghanistan.

In fact, the American people have voted in two subsequent elections to bring the troops HOME.

Gates, speaking at the Pentagon on Tuesday, one day after he appeared with Obama for the announcement of the new national security team, made clear that the direction of troop levels now had been decided, with the only decisions remaining on how fast and how low. "And so the question is, how do we do this in a responsible way?" Gates said. "And nobody wants to put at risk the gains that have been achieved, with so much sacrifice, on the part of our soldiers and the Iraqis, at this point."

The problem with leaving a war criminal in charge of the Department of War becomes clearer.

The "Peace Movement" is

The "Peace Movement" is neither a wing of the Democratic Party, nor a viable "political" movement. It is mainly made up of Greens and Independents. While being a noble cause, the Peace Movement is no different than the many other narrowly-focused "movements" in existence: environmentalists, animal rights advocates, Save The ______ (fill in the blank), etc.

You do not speak for a majority of Democrats David, and you really should stop pretending that you do. You are on a private crusade which has little to do with promoting the principles and values of the Democratic Party, or of mainstream Democrats. Your efforts to advance your personal agenda appears to be made up primarily, of promoting yourself.

Bill. If I may:

Within context I agree with your assessment of the "narrowly focused".

Outside the above context, I would like to add something that I think you might agree with:

-A narrow focus is often necessary to move something "uphill".

-A narrow focus does NOT necessarily mean one does not care about other issues. (E.G. someone working to advance cancer research can hardly be accused of not caring about crime).

For weirdos, such as myself, I am cursed with an engineering approach: The damned issues seem to all get tangled together so that if I care for the environment, for example, I have to watch out if I am hurting workers. This tangling brings one back to "non focused" efforts within a political party, however I still try to advance specifics.

I don't think there is any disagreement here, I just thought I'd add the above.

Jim

I totally agree Jim, that a

I totally agree Jim, that a narrow focus is often the most direct route to solving a specific problem. A "bottom up" approach to solving a myriad of problems, is comprised of several narrowly focused segments all leading to a coordinated broader agenda.

The "management" of these several segments, however, becomes more difficult when each of these various segments begins to lobby for, and believe, that their particular "holy grail" is so much more important than the overall objective. As you point out, each particular project has the potential to produce consequences (both good and bad) for all of the other initiatives.

When exaggerated strawman arguments (Democrats call for...) are used to bolster one particular "cause," and to attack the "manager" as being non-responsive when he or she doesn't give in to bullying however, they only serve to weaken the whole.

Good points.

Especially about the difficulties of "managing" the parts.

Another thought experiment?

---Think about how "YOU" would manage, and sustain, the changes everyone is proposing.

-------------------------------------

I think too, that some can find relief by recognizing that there are TWO tiers to change: One is situated within the political realm, and the other, longer term, within the cultural. I still think, for example, that we have a lot of work to do within the cultural realm, on economics.

On more sensitive topics almost all the work must be done within the cultural realm first. For example, I HATE it when my wife takes food off my plate! HATE IT! I'll cook her a gourmet meal. I'll get her food. Whatever. But if my belly has calculated the amount of food on my plate, and my digestive enzymes are kicking, I feel like a lion when that hand comes reaching! I therefore do not want to get between a dude and his pork chop. However, I'm fine with slowly offering opinions on this or that which may impact folks decisions about diet. (E.G. a little less meat saves tons of energy resources).

And I might add, that if one is not successful in the cultural realm, then there is more often than not, no point of pushing the matter in the political realm.

Having been a lesser

Having been a lesser "manager" most of my adult life, I can safely say that there is no right way to manage. The management of people and time is very different from the management of materials. Common goals must be shared by the entire team in order to achieve them within a reasonable amount of time.

Jack Welch, the former CEO of GE, once said: "The primary function of a manager is to remove obstacles, and solve problems. If there were no problems, managers would be unnecessary." That philosophy of "clearing the path" for the Team (and establishing consensual priorities), while sometimes hard to achive in some circumstances, has always worked for me.

To answer your question more specifically, if I were to be somehow magically (comically) transported into the Oval Office, my initial priorities would be:

1) Fixing the US economy (jobs, housing, cost-of-living, etc.) by whatever means necessary, including: tax overhaul, stimulus packages for individuals and small businesses, regulating the financial sector, and printing money;

2) Introduce legislation to enact afforable education & healthcare for all citizens;

3) Reaching out to our world-wide allies, and asking for help in ending our involvement in Iraq, while helping the Iraqi people to rebuild their country (we broke it, we need to fix it); and,

4) Initiating and facilitating the formation of a world-wide civilian police force (FBI, Interpol, CIA, KGB, etc.) to address the problem of international terrorism, and its sponsors. Indict and prosecute terrorists in a World Court environment. Gradually transfer the efforts in Afghanistan to this organization.

Then, on the fifth day I would rest...

Where the hell...

...is my "Jimmy gets the TV remote" legislation!

I'm up against FOUR females over hear.

Convert them to Islam, and

Convert them to Islam, and invoke your male superiority...

You think your open minded as a male, and then...

...you have three daughters!

Even when I get around to being mad at the wife, I now have to think about what the kids are learning from me.

And the introspection ain't out of selflessness. I'm bracing myself for the kind of guys they'll bring home when they grow up.

...You know, in a few decades when they're allowed.

I've always thought that

I've always thought that eagles have the best method of parenting. When the fledglings leave the nest, the parents build a barricade of sticks to prevent them from returning.

In my case, I got tired of replacing the sticks after my wife kept taking them down.

Great analogy.

We're in the PRE PRE-teen age era, so you'll have to ask me again later!

Jim, it ain't the fellas the girls will bring home...

that you need to worry about...its the ones they don't bring home.

Bill, I admire your eagle strategy. Doesn't work in today's world however...all the kids are coming home now--they need a roof, meals, laundry and other items.

A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.

Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623

 

The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.

Grinch, I know that all too

Grinch, I know that all too well from personal experience. But, it's nice to dream...;-)

Since you will never be

Since you will never be allowed to have control of the TV remote Jim, maybe you could take the job of "Science Czar" in the new, improved, Democratic, Harding administration ? [I know that czar has a really mean sound to it, but it might get you a little time with the remote?] We do need someone who can sort out all the false science from the important work and maybe save the planet for our grandkids [if you ever let your daughters date that is].

Just a thought. It would of course be up to President Bill.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross." ~ Sinclair Lewis

LOL! On a distant planet, in

LOL! On a distant planet, in a galaxy far, far, away...

Hey, Bill

The second week could you
1. set up a national pension plan that moves from job to job with the worker/owner, that belongs totally to the worker and his family and that no company can default on and congress can not touch?

2. and would you hire a large staff of bright young minds managed by good solid lawyers to check into every one of the Bush signing statements and all changes that the Bush/Cheney regime made in the law during their reign of terror against the people of Earth?

Right after those things are accomplished you might feel in need of a short vacation before the real hard work starts;)

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross." ~ Sinclair Lewis

Constructive Criticism of the Peace Movement OR Me.

Maybe I am ill informed and this criticism applies to me but...

I don't know what the Peace Movement is.

-I felt the Iraq War was wrong for several reasons.

-I stood in candle light vigils for peace there, because of that.

-I read a bit.

I still don't know what the Peace Movement is, or else I do, and it is minimally, feeble, and maximally, incorrect.

----

I understand that the above can be construed as "fighting words" but I hope they are seen more as a challenge.

As grinch pointed out, with sanity in place (with the template for governance we have been gifted by our forefathers), what is the need, for example, of a Department of Peace?

And what would its establishment concede? It would concede to the base instincts of a minority in this Nation. It would concede to the Far Right that the merits of Sanity needs debating and a department. I'm more for operating so that our children will see all this as implicitly part of the entire operating scheme of our Nation.

----

I could go on, as you know David ;) but I'll end here: A better case needs to be made for an "external" peace movement.

Jim

Swanson:

"The problem with leaving a war criminal in charge of the Department of War becomes clearer."

Any commission of 'War Crimes' by Gates when he served under Raygun? 

 

David, as Bill has already pointed out...

there is no organized Peacenik wing of the Democratic Party. You tend to mouth off about this strange hangup of yours all the time. You are a Peacenik...you are not a Dem. You are nothing but a cheap Flim-Flam man claiming to be something that you are not.

The so-called 'largest Peace gathering'...ummm...how large is it. Does it make up at least 1% of the population...or is it less than that? What a farce.

We, the Dems, want peace but we are not going to get it. After the past 8 years of consistancy in eternal war, you should recognize the truth.

All the BS about moving troops around and relabeling them will not stop them from coming home in coffins. It will not stop the spread of Blackwater Mercenaries throughout the world--even here at home. Guarding of our Iraq 'Taj Mahal' embassy will be turned over to Blackwater troops for guard duties. Heretofore, the Marines have done a fine job in that responsibility.

On and on you drone...the 'white noise' from you is endless. Please go away and quit your endless nonsense.

A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.

Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623

 

The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.