Whose Taxes Might Get Cut Or Raised?

  • davidswanson's picture
    davidswanson
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Do the bottom two groups pay any tax now?

  • TheBrownHornet's picture
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I don't see how he can cut the taxes on a group that shouldn't be paying any taxes.

A family of four that makes $35,000 would get a $10,700 standard deduction as well as $3400 deduction for each dependant leaving them $10,700 of taxable income. With that income, their tax due would currently be 1213.75, however, they're going to qualify for the EIC and get a $1000 and the Child Tax Credit for two kids which will be $2000. So currently, the family is going to pay $100 dollars per month in income tax and in April when the do their taxes, they'll get back $3000. Meaning, they don't pay any taxes. What's the point of giving a tax cut to people that don't pay taxes. With a $892 cut, they'll only be paying $321

If we as a country want to subsidize families that make less than $35,000, we can do that. But we shouldn't use the IRS to do it.

Of course we should use the IRS to do that.

  • Jim's picture
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Unless of course you ALSO disagree with Anti Monopoly Laws, Time Limited Patent Laws, Generational Copyright Laws, etc. ALL designed to take from the "winner" and give to the "loser".

Now I place those words in parenthesis because they are not accurate when left naked. For example, a low wage earner STILL has to raise kids (for a minimum of 18 years) at NO compensation, in order to fill the ranks of our Armed Forces. THAT is a contribution that is left out of these squeamish talks about taxes. (And folks who need their treasure defending the most do not have the shear number of bodies to defend it).

In addition folks labor for wages BELOW what they could demand BECAUSE they are more productive than some who labor for higher wages. E.G. Einstein.

Income then is NOT an accurate measure of contribution, and We The People can rectify that via the IRS as we use other rectifying mechanisms alluded to above.

Go too far however and we cut our own throats via the Left. That has not been a problem of late however.

I hope you will consider my words.

Jim

Are you implying parents should be paid to have children?

  • TheBrownHornet's picture
    TheBrownHornet
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As far as low wage earners getting "NO" compensation, what do you call the child tax credit, child day care credit, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF), Aid to Families with Dependant Children (AFDC) and the school lunch program? All of these programs give money to low wage earners to assist (compensate) them for raising their children.

Please.

  • Jim's picture
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You cite crumbs.

It's only because you think this is charity that it feels like a big whoop. It is not charity. They are Anti Monopoly measures of the kind used at the top where NO reference is ever made to "charity".

(Re-read what I wrote because this is not about thinking as usual, but rather thinking things through from fundamentals).

Further, they are measures used to STIMULATE the economy by returning capital to those who provide the muscle and brains for innovation, rather than letting capital pool amongst dead wood.

It is not just a cliche that the rich get richer. There is an inertia to wealth that allows for lower productivity. Further, those whose skill set makes best use of people AS tools also find it quite easy to drain capital from those whose skill set produces our Science, our Defense, etc. That is NOT a good thing. I am pro growth.

As to what I am implying, again, re-read what I wrote. I am implying what I have implied:

-Wars are fought, in large part, to defend a Nation's Wealth.

-Folks should pay in PROPORTION to the wealth they need defending.

-IN ADDITION: since they do not have the shear number of bodies to defend that wealth they SHOULD pay an additional charge for the great number of human souls who will die for the defense of that wealth.

-Hence a Progressive Income Tax.

Or do you not believe in paying for services rendered?

Or perhaps that a life should never have a monetary value placed on it?

Ya know, two things can be true at once:

-It can be true that we have children for ourselves.

-It can also be true that when others need our kids to die for them they should provide a tax base which allows a Nation to raise kids with "luxury" items, like access to Market Wages for Soldiering, Health Care so their proto soldiers don't die before the age of warfare, reasonable incomes via zero taxation on the first $65,000 made by all Americans with additional taxation on dollars above that, etc. (Once again, this assumes you understand that most skilled folks do NOT require much in the way of compensation.)

And to put this battle for crumbs in perspective:

-half of all Americans make a stack of hundred dollar bills 1.6 inches high per year.

-90% of all Americans make a stack about 4 inches tall.

-Some in the top 1% make a stack NOT feet tall. NOT hundreds of feet tall. NOT thousands of feet tall. But into outer space, a stack 30 miles high.

Capital needs to be returned to the vast majority to fire off innovation and an economic boom. Once again, go too far and you suppress Paris Hilton's desire to do the labor she is presently doing and that HURTS the economy. It is my thesis however that there is room to cut fat at the top WITHOUT suppressing thier labor AND that we have gone too far cutting the vast majority off from capital and are suppressing thier labors.

I suggest nothing different in kind than what goes on at the top. Aristocrats do not go willingly into Monarchy (Monopoly). They spread the wealth around.

Democrats simply spread it further.

Entrepreneurs often contribute NOTHING.

  • Jim's picture
    Jim
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First:

-Nobody gives you a job.

-Cash can be made for oneself if one can get others to labor at a low enough wage.

This is not bad. Neither is it something to be raised on a pedestal about. This raising up is not the sensibility of Middle Americans nor that of the educated crowd, skilled and knowledgeable across a broad range of disciplines. Yet mid level hacks promote it. Most often those who simply effeminately swoon at the feet of folks they can't emulate.

Well I'm an entrepreneur. I've had to work for free to advance projects with the chance of a bigger pay off. I've also worked at other trades. For folks who actually DO, rather than simply worship, I can tell you that the skill sets needed for soldiering or policing or in medical research, etc. are far greater than that of the lowly entrepreneur. A cure for folks who swoon over the skills of an entrepreneur might be a single round in the Ultimate Fighter Octagon. Ya wanna see some skills?

Secondly,


1-If a new business increases productivity then the economy grows.

Gratitude given.


2-If a new business motivates folks to labor (via exciting wages, perks, etc.) when they would have instead simply not bothered to work, then the economy grows.

Gratitude given.

3-If a new business motivates folks to work elsewhere to gain the cash to buy its new widget then the economy grows.
Gratitude given (within context).

MOST OFTEN NONE OF THE ABOVE OCCURS AND ENTREPRENEURS ARE SIMPLY DOING A JOB.
No pedestal!

All that occurs is folks shuffle around engaging in other activities. Licking envelopes rather than racking hay. No big whoop for our boy genius entrepreneur.

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But the Libertarian and Conservative camp, keep telling us with venom, that there is no friggen point to getting cash to the "uneducated" crowd.

They are speaking of course to the vast majority who actually perform the hard labor and DO the innovation. Both the mechanic and the research scientist.

Oh yes, Libertarians and Conservatives will grant that the later is "educated" but they are still not the precious "entrepreneur."

It's a job folks.

Jim

In praise of Entrepreneurs who contribute.

  • Jim's picture
    Jim
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Oh no, the world is complex!

I'd like to post a quick reference to an Entrepreneur who contributed: Joe Martin

As well as a link to his e-book on starting a business.

Making Money the Old Fashioned Way
By Joe Martin

http://sherline.com/business.htm

Mr. Martin has contributed much via all three mechanisms alluded to in my previous post.

Jim

Be glad he did not become an entrepeneur.

  • Jim's picture
    Jim
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Authority on Adult Stem Cell Therapy Astounds Over 200 Physicians at Anti-Aging Conference in Nation's Capital

Market Wire

07-22-08

WASHINGTON, DC, Jul 19, 2008 (MARKET WIRE via COMTEX) -- Speaking at the 16th Annual World Congress on Anti-Aging Medicine & Regenerative Biomedical Technologies at the Gaylord National Resort in Washington, DC, on Friday, July 18, Florida-based cardiologist Dr. Zannos Grekos astounded over 200 physicians with a presentation on the impressive regenerative behavior of pre-engineered adult stem cells injected into patients with cardiomyopathy.
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"We're able to bring a patient from a Class IV status to a Class II status in less than 180 days," said Grekos commenting on the success rate of Regenocyte patients receiving adult stem cell therapy to repair damage to heart muscle and arteries caused by atherosclerosis, a disease that causes heart muscle disorders and infarction due to plaque formation in the cardiac arteries in over 500,000 Americans.
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Dr. Grekos responded to the forum by stating, "Three months after treatment, cardiac nuclear scans of the areas treated reveal reversal of damage. In some cases, it's virtually impossible to identify the problems that existed before therapy. We have shown such improvement in some patients that they were taken off the heart transplant list."
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READ MORE: http://www.lef.org/news/LefDailyNews.htm?NewsID=7100&Section=Aging

Of course if you value the non productive entrepreneur/business which, for example, simply entices folks to switch cell phone styles then I guess its frowns all around.

For the rest of us, a big thank you for this new world we are entering.

No longer must we understand exactly what to do. The dang stem cells are weaving new tissue on their own!

Jim

CEOs are glorified Secretaries.

  • Jim's picture
    Jim
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At least many are.

While secretarial work can be trying, there is no great reason to raise such CEOs on a pedestal because of it.

Regardless of what Conservatives/Libertarians say, YOUR job is critically important for our Nation.

In addition:

-It does not matter whether one makes cash for one CEO or another.

-The same work is still performed: The labor, the research, the soldiering, etc...

THEY are often the expendable ones.

And this ain't no feel good party. Some folks deserve credit. More some than others! But this blanket Conservative/Libertarian effeminate fawning over CEOs is absurd and thankfully young folks with brains, muscle, ovaries and testicles are calling it like they see it:

You have to earn your respect.

Jim