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Florida Primary
What are progressive Dems saying about the millions of Florida and Michagan Dem voters who are right now being disenfranchised by their own Party? This is a travesty to democracy. Here's a copy of a letter I sent to a local editor on this topic:
To the Editor:
Unbelievably, millions of voters have been thrown out of the 2008 primary. This time it's not faulty voting machines and hanging chads! To recap how we got to this sad place of disenfranchisement, here's the history. For lack of space, I'll focus on Florida, though Michigan's voters need to be addressed too
The Florida State Legislature (under Republican rule), not happy with being lumped together with everyone else on Super Tuesday, moved their primary date up to January 29. They purposefully chose this date following the earlier primaries/caucuses of Iowa, NH, Nevada and South Carolina, so as not to encroach upon the first primary status of those states. This legislation was then signed into law by Florida's Republican Governor (05/21/07). The problem is this new legislation did not follow the Democratic National Committee rules, so the DNC meted out a 2-part punishment. And who does the DNC punish? Their own Democratic voters! -- who have become innocent victims of this whole insanity.
Anyway, here's the punishment: First, the presidential candidates would not be allowed to campaign there. If punishment were warranted, this was harsh enough, but the DNC added a second stick: the Democratic voters, who by the way turned out in record-breaking numbers, will not be represented at the National Convention. Talk about throwing a baby out in the bathwater!! For the DNC to tell millions of voters not to bother to vote because they don't count is incredibly short-sighted and just plain STUPID!!
Doesn't the DNC know how critical Florida and Michigan are to the General Election? Why are they alienating millions of their own Democrats?! In effect, the DNC has disenfranchised its own people, voters who themselves had nothing to do with the Florida State Republican-ruled Legislature's rescheduling of the primary date.
Is this what we call representative democracy?
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In this very important election, the votes of both states--
Florida and Michigan must be counted and their delegates seated. At the moment, our two leaders are running essentially neck and neck.
Of the two candidates, one wants the delegates seated and the other does not want the delegates seated. The candidate who wants the voters protected and the delegates seated is Hillary Clinton. The anti-seating candidate is Senator Obama. I'm sure you can all read between the lines.
Both Florida and Michigan turned out in large crowds to vote. Their votes deserve to be counted.
Neither candidate campaigned in Michigan, one fudged in Florida by buying national tv time ads that were played in Florida. One candidate kept her name on the ballot in Michigan, the other--due to his own inexperience(and catering to Iowa and NH)did not.
This is a looming battle between the candidates, the DNC, the people who turned out to vote, and the convention rules.
Michigan and Florida: the votes must count and the delegates seated.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
votes of both statea
I believe the decision to disenfranchise the delegates of Florida and Michigan was made by the rules committee of the democratic party..and agreed to by BOTH Clinton and Obama. I'm sure the decision was not taken lightly, but it was made and agreed to.
Obamas name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan, maybe because he had agreed to the decision or maybe he had other reasons..I have no idea. I do know this nomination will be decided by delegates, and Mr. Obama pretty much has that locked up. You may be watching too much cable news if you think otherwise.
I haven't really been involved in politics for the last 25 years or so and I live in an area that was devastated by NAFTA. I have a Masters Degree, so I don't lack in education.
I've heard words and phrases over the years that I didn't like and I was to the point of fearing...words like New World Order..and entitlement. I've watched this country turn from a manufacturing country..to a service oriented company. Our major companies have moved overseas and our government allowed it..and went so far as to encourage it.
The Democratic party has pretty much fell on their faces and the hearings today..only continue that fall. There are people standing outside the building that the hearings are being held in and protesting..bussed there by the Clintons', if I were a Republican, I would sit here laughing instead of sitting here being angry. A deal was made and agreed to..you stick by it..no matter what.
Hillary Clinton agreed to the deal because she thought she had a lock on the nomination..she is sticking by the people of those...states because she got beat
DISENFRANCHISMENT OF FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN
I have been a democrat my whole voting life (i am 53) and I have given money to the DNC when i could afford it.But if the votes are not counted in Florida and Michigan the party will have LOST me forever,I will become an Independant.The fact that the party could play into Republican hands and make my vote not count makes me SICK.Those that ask for a recount also anger me.There was a day to vote.No matter what the party said you should have voted.They should be COUNTED>What is the worse thing is THIS will happen EVERY YEAR unless Florida changes its date for its primary/THis is all to bowdown to the states that have always voted first because they put up a fuss.Well most of those states have alot less voters than Florida or Michigan who SHOULD be earlier deciders in the presidential primaries.
It is one of many disgracies this country has had in the last 7 years.
A "selected " president and now millions of disenfranchised voters but this time by their own party.What a disgrace.
or YOU could fight...
...to have YOUR Party do what YOU think is best.
And should that fail, YOU could fight to maintain YOUR Party's consensus on other vital matters.
In particular, fight so that OTHER Democrats don't run away.
---
Should I threaten to leave the Democratic Party when I see fellow Democrats doing what I don't believe in? Namely, threatening to run away.
Stay and fight. It's YOUR Party.
It is a disgrace that my
It is a disgrace that my vote will be halved by the likes of Dean, Pelousi and Reid---I am screaming mad-I have voted in every Presidental election since Stevenson/ eisenhower and for the first time in my life I WILL VOTE republican this year-I was a delegate for Ted Kennedy at the Springfield, Ma. convention against Ed Mc Cormack, my 2nd cousin, I proudly voted for Sen. Kennedy then and every time he ran--I now live in Fl. and expect my vote and my wife Barbara's vote to count for 1/2 ------Did 1/2 of me go to Republic of Viet Nam in 67/68 I don't remember such an event-------It will be disgraceful if you do not count me as a full person, as well as my wife-----------SHAME on you and your minions if you do this to-morrow a pox on you and my former party if you go ahead with this terrible travesty that you have created by you lack-luster leader-ship--------I will go to my grave with a heavy heart for the pain you have wrought on me in my senior years------------- SHAME the Democratic National is a disgrace for your handling of the Primary election SHAME------------Dan Mc Carthy
Well Dan...
Is there any rules you do believe in?
As I said elsewhere, I agree that the "Rights over Rules" idea has a lot of merit.
HOWEVER:
I have never seen irate Democrats ---now claiming to be voting Republican--- offer any conversation as to why its OK to vote any way, and at any time they want, and STILL have their votes counted by the tens of millions who agreed on a plan.
--------------------
You don't have to convince me of a damned thing. You don't have to convince Dean, Pelosi, and Reid of a damned thing. You have to convince the tens of millions of other Democrats why we can all vote whenever we feel like it and have it counted. To do that you have to actually open your mouth. I've tried to get folks to do just that: OPEN THEIR MOUTHS and talk to fellow Democrats. Too late now, I'm afraid. I would have liked to have seen more work on the Rights over Rules notion but instead we often got:
-Threats of leaving the Party.
-Threats of voting to f@@k over the troops by voting Republican.
-etc.
---------------------------
We have Vietnam Vets here who would not screw this Nation by voting Republican even if Dean, Pelosi, and Reid attempted to murder them.
This is not a football team. Are we really suppose to say
Yeah, I get it. Your injustice was greater than that (certainly by your reckoning and of course many other Democrats reckoning -who you are about to screw).
---------------------
Anyway, Dan, you've lived longer than I. You've earned your respect. Don't take what Pelosi et al or this Democrat, does or says, to heart. I owe you for your service. They owe you as well. You have to do what you feel is best.
I freely admit I simply do not get it. It's as simple as that. The anger I get. The Rights over Rules argument I get. Jumping ship, I don't get.
Don't take any of this situation as bitterness to the grave ;) Instead, please just view it as another example of pain-in-the-ass-people! I think Mark Twain said: "the more people I meet, the more I like my dog".
It's damned tough getting a hundred million people to agree. Damned tough.
Best Regards,
Jim
Get the right target
It ain't us that pulled this travesty off. Go to your STATE legislatures and your STATE democratic committees to get it fixed so it can't happen again. The DNC already laid out the rules and it isn't like they weren't known. If the speed limited posted is 65mph and you drive 80mph you get a ticket when you get caught. Breaking the rules has consequences. If you have to choose to vote for a 3rd Bush term, by all means go ahead. That is your right.
The decision to move the
The decision to move the Primary Election dates in Florida and Michigan, with full knowledge of the consequences beforehand, was made in the respective States, by the people of those States.
If you don't like the Rules, then it is incumbent on you and your fellow citizens to petition for change before you break them. The rest of the 48 States followed the Rules, and did not need to whine about being "disenfranchised." If you can't do the time, don't do the crime...
Becoming an "Independent" is a meaningless gesture and a cop out, and will only serve to further "disenfranchise" you. You can only initiate change from within the framework of a mainstream political Party -- be it Democratic or Republican.
Just a silly reply
I will not vote if the delegates are not seated and Obama wins because of it.... I quit... i am tired of being screwed by the Republicans... now the Democrats are doing a great job of it too!~~!!!!!
Should I be pissed if I voted 17 months ago...
...by making my mark with a stick in the soil behind an old oak tree, and the Democratic Party does NOT accept my vote as valid?
Counting the delegates
"I will not vote if the delegates are not seated and Obama wins because of it.... "
Sorry you felt that way, but now almost a month later it looks like Obama is going to win the delegate count even if the Florida and Michigan delegates are seated with Hillary claiming an unfair advantage (Obama not on the ballot). What are you going to do now, if Obama wins fair and square?
florida voters
"The rest of the 48 States followed the Rules, and did not need to whine about being "disenfranchised." If you can't do the time, don't do the crime..."
_______________________________________________________
This is not true four states are ALLOWED to break the so called rules EVERY year....now why is that? These are states who have much fewer voters too than Florida...what makes them so special?
Not true. The Primary
Not true. The Primary Election dates of the early "bellwether" states are fully approved by both political Parties, and have been for years.
Florida primary
Moved to Florida the day before the primary, but had registered and had the opportunity to cast my ballot in Florida. The Democratic National Committee has taken that right away from me. No where in the Constitution is it stated that a group may take away your vote by saying the rules of the primary were not obeyed. Myself and hundreds, maybe thousands who cast their vote for Hillary Clinton have had that vote stripped away. Michigan gave half of its delegates to Obama who was not even on the ballot. This must change. Let there be a fight on the floor of the convention in Denver, Colorado. Hillary Clinton is a viable candidate and the committee is making it clear they do not want her. What kind of a group are these people? I will vote Democratic, because I cannot think of another four years of a continuation of the Bush Wars, but living in Florida will they come up with some cock and bull story as to why my vote doesn't count. This is un-American and has to be addressed and changed. Votes must be counted as voted and counted in full. to H--- with the National Committee. They have overstepped the line and have turned the votes from the states of Florida and Michigan into a vote not reflective of the voice of the people. We cannot let a group dictate our votes and discount them. If I had known this before I voted, I would have kept my registration in the state where I had lived for eight years and had my vote counted. I feel deprived of my rights.
Your logic is full of
Your logic is full of holes:
1. The DNC did not take away any of your "rights" -- the Republican-controlled Florida State Legislature did that, by moving the Primary date with full foreknowledge of the consequences.
2. The Constitution says absolutely nothing about Primary elections. The Primaries are an internal Party political mechanism by which each Party chooses a candidate to run in the General Election. Not too very long ago, candidates were chosen by a few fat, old, white men in smoke-filled backrooms.
3. The DNC Rules which were agreed to by ALL candidates, and ALL states, give no advantages to a particular candidate. The candidates win, or lose, on their own merits.
The goals of the elected members of the DNC, and all thinking Democrats is to elect the DEMOCRAT in November -- regardless of who that turns out to be. This is not a beauty contest where your candidate must win, or else. This is a contest for the future of our country, and for the lives of future generations of Americans.
Could not have said it better myself.
Absolutely. I'm appalled that they gave them 1/2 a vote each. The rules should be followed. If they are not followed consequences occur. Stop the whining, FL & MI! Talk to your state Democratic committees and you state representation in the state legislatures to get it corrected. At any rate, thank you, Bill!
Florida's Votes
As a Floridian, I was incensed that my vote was not counted. I actually voted for John Edwards! The Florida Votes shoud be counted because everyone was on the ballot. If people chose not to vote, then they were stupid. There were more issues on the ballot than just the Presidential Election. However, the Michigan votes should not be counted because everyone was NOT on the ballot.
You should direct your
You should direct your complaint to your Republican-controlled state legislature. They were the ones who moved the Primary Election date in defiance of both political Parties.
As another poster pointed out, we didn't hear this many complaints when Florida and the Supreme Court gave the 2000 election to Dubya.
The solution to the "Florida problem" rests with the Floridian voters: replace the current representatives with Democrats.