Last Chance Before Draft?
November 29th, 2004 1:43 pm
Military Recruiters Target Schools Strategically
By Charlie Savage / Boston Globe
POMFRET, Md. -- Military recruiting saturates life at McDonough High, a working-class public school where recruiters chaperon dances, students in a junior ROTC class learn drills from a retired sergeant major in uniform, and every prospect gets called at least six times by the Army alone.
Recruiters distribute key chains, mugs, and military brochures at McDonough's cafeteria. They are trained to target students at schools like McDonough across the country, using techniques such as identifying a popular student -- whom they call a "center of influence" -- and conspicuously talking to that student in front of others.
Meanwhile, at McLean High, a more affluent public school 37 miles away in Virginia, there is no military chaperoning and no ROTC class. Recruiters adhere to a strict quota of visits, lining up behind dozens of colleges. In the guidance office, military brochures are dwarfed by college pennants. Posters promote life amid ivy-covered walls, not in the cockpits of fighter jets.
Students from McDonough are as much as six times more likely than those from McLean to join the military, a disparity that is replicated elsewhere. A survey of the military's recruitment system found that the Defense Department zeroes in on schools where students are perceived to be more likely to join up, while making far less effort at schools where students are steered toward college.
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Edited by moderator for compliance with Fair Use laws. Please limit citations to no more than 4 paragraphs.
Spreading Thin
According to a Retired General on MSNBC interviewed by Chris Matthews, I wish I knew his name, we have zero troopes to send anywhere, we are stretched so thin, we can't send them to Iraq, or anywhere in the world, we are desperate to increase troops in our military, and they are desperate, they only have one solution, the draft. They ought to stay out of schools, students have aspirations to get educated and continue on with their lives, if this is an all volunteer military, where are the volunteers?
"The only thing necessary for the perpetuation of evil is for good people to do nothing." ~Jane Elliott
Uh, maybe the NRA membership?
Uh, maybe the NRA membership? They're already armed and according to the Second Amendment aren't they a "militia?"
Good Idea
We could send Charlton Heston, he loves guns, maybe if we drop him on his head a couple times he wont notice where he is, and Jerry Falwell, he thinks this war is so just, and dislikes anyone that doesn't worship the bible, lets send him and his nutcase followers, and I forgot, this is bush's war, lets send him and the twins.
Like the Fliers too.
"The only thing necessary for the perpetuation of evil is for good people to do nothing." ~Jane Elliott
that saves a few americans, b
that saves a few americans, but still fucks the iraqies....
true Open dialouge
Iraq
If we want a peaceful Iraq we need to quickly let them take 100% control of their country, they can't be a democracy because they don't know how, and continuing down this path is just going to continue the violence of the insurgents and we will never win when we are fighting them on their soil. We beat the Brits in the Revolution, it was our soil, it is proven that Guerilla Warfare is very difficult to Fight in, they are forcing us to pursue them to fight on their terms not ours, and in this case they will prevail over vastly superior armys, I am sorry but they have the highground
"The only thing necessary for the perpetuation of evil is for good people to do nothing." ~Jane Elliott
tisk tisk tisk.... on what pr
tisk tisk tisk.... on what premise do you base your assesment that Iraqies don't know how to have a democracy?... The US also lost the War of 1812 on "our" soil....
true Open dialouge
They don't want it....
If you look at the fighting of the insurgency to the point of an all out Civil War in Iraq:
1)Want the US out of there country.
2)Don't want our values forced on them. They don't want a democracy.
Of course if you are watching Fox news, they say the war is going great, and everyday we are accomplishing so much, but they don't report news, they report colored opinion.
"The only thing necessary for the perpetuation of evil is for good people to do nothing." ~Jane Elliott
sir, I don't need to be told
sir, I don't need to be told that a news service that claims the Oswall was the lone assassin and that there was no moon landing is a load of bullshit... I already know this...
the US's values aren't democracy, the US has given itself arbitray power in disqualifying candidates for the election, and Allwai is a CIA/Mi5 operative, the US is establishing numerous perminate bases... there's no reason for the average Iraqi to think that the US will move those bases upon request of the elected Iraqi govenment, the US has kept it's base in Cuba without regard of the request of the Cuban government so why would Iraq be any different, then ontop of that several key buerocrats are US appointed and there terms do not end with the election, there terms continue well into the term of who ever wins... these key buerocrats include head of domestic intelligence and head of the military... and, as harsh and cynical as it may sound, but government power comes in one form, the fist. If pro-US buerocrats with US economic intrest in mind are the ones controling the fist of the government, who's intrest does that government serve?
true Open dialouge
credibility
I follow exactly what is going on in Iraq everyday and I know that the success in Iraq is letting them have their country back to allow them to form the Iraq they want, most of the Muslim countries do not respect the US and don't want our values forced on them, they don't value democracy and extremists like Falwell and Robertson and King George offend them, George Bush is so disrespected throughout the world, Tony Blair, and Pakistan, and Hamid Karzi, only because Karzi was part of Unocal are about the only countries that approve of Bush. This is now a US vs them, and to think that Iraq is easy is a FANTASY, we are going to be there for years, probably betwee, 10-20 years if we keep trying to do what we are doing now, but if we get the repugs out of Office, by stopping all the rigging and Fraudulent voting, a democratic administration that actually thinks and has ethics and morality, something the Bush administration knows nothing about this war that was totally wrong and unjust will finally have an exit plan and the Iraqi people might be contempt with what is brought to the table. But this war will never end with corrupt immoral republicans that can do nothing but lie.
"The only thing necessary for the perpetuation of evil is for good people to do nothing." ~Jane Elliott
it may be true that not many
it may be true that not many in Iraq value democracy, judging by the compostion of oppostion groups to arise in Iraq after the first desert storm, I would guess that most Iraqies choise either p2p relations or decentrialized Soviets (councils) in place of Democracy... but at the same time, I have to wonder what makes YOU belive that Iraq, and the Middle East in general doesn't want democracy... and also wondering, how do you associate freedom and democracy?... cause surveys show that most Middle Easterners are angrey with the US because of there support of oppressive theocratic regimes, and also the US's un-ending support of Israel in there genocide of Palistein
true Open dialouge
the fight goes on
I try to make this very simple if the Iraqis wanted us in their country there would be a much more peaceful Iraq now, the Middle East for the most part Iran, Syria etc.. don't want us bullying the world.
As far as Israel, as a Jewish American, regardless of how religious I am because I am not religious, Israel is fighting against terrorists that are attacking them, they have every right to protect themselves from these attacks, no Israeli is safe from being killed by these terrorist organizations, and I support 100% on defending themselves, now, I don't agree with everything Sharon does, but I have to support Israel, it is my homeland. The genocide is unfounded if you pay attention to what the Israelis go through in their lives every single day not to be attacked by a suicide bomber. I have family their and these terrorist organizations must be stopped, just like Al-Qaeda, but Israel suffers attacks daily.
"The only thing necessary for the perpetuation of evil is for good people to do nothing." ~Jane Elliott
your error is associateing US
your error is associateing US presence with pro-democracy, which cleary it isn't
I got to go
true Open dialouge
me too
Your continous non sequitur arguments are wasting my time, I have other things to do.
"The only thing necessary for the perpetuation of evil is for good people to do nothing." ~Jane Elliott
lets recap:you say: "...
lets recap:
you say: "... they can't be a democracy because they don't know how..."
I ask: "on what premise do you base your assesment that Iraqies don't know how to have a democracy?"
you respond: "If you look at the fighting of the insurgency to the point of an all out Civil War in Iraq:
1)Want the US out of there country.
2)Don't want our values forced on them. They don't want a democracy.
Of course if you are watching Fox news, they say the war is going great, and everyday we are accomplishing so much, but they don't report news, they report colored opinion."
first off, this is factualy inaccurate, the various insurgent factions are becoming more and more strongly united, not divided, in there wish to expell the imperialst armys... so there actualy moving away from civil war, though some in the Shia south are threating succsession if the current Bagdad based government isn't overthrown, as they recongize it as the US puppet it is.
then you list "[Iraqies] Want the US out of there country." as a reason for why Iraqies don't want democracy, this very directly implys that the US is pro-democracy, which I refuted once but can go into more detail if you insist.
then you state outright that Iraqies don't want democracy, I suppose this is a step up from saying there incapable, but I still have to ask why... anyways, why you assume that I watch Fox news I will never know... why is it that anything that questions your closed view of the world is immediatly assumed to be the product of Fox News I will never know...
I reply: "the US's values aren't democracy, the US has given itself arbitray power in disqualifying candidates for the election, and Allwai is a CIA/Mi5 operative, the US is establishing numerous perminate bases... there's no reason for the average Iraqi to think that the US will move those bases upon request of the elected Iraqi govenment, the US has kept it's base in Cuba without regard of the request of the Cuban government so why would Iraq be any different, then ontop of that several key buerocrats are US appointed and there terms do not end with the election, there terms continue well into the term of who ever wins... these key buerocrats include head of domestic intelligence and head of the military... and, as harsh and cynical as it may sound, but government power comes in one form, the fist. If pro-US buerocrats with US economic intrest in mind are the ones controling the fist of the government, who's intrest does that government serve?"
now, I belive this suits the purpose of showing that the US intrest in Iraq are not in establishing a democracy (surprise! surprise!), which refutes your first numbered anwser to my orginal inquirey...
I also ask a question, who's intrest does a government serve when the army is ran by those who have economic gain on there mind?... there are many points you can try to refute, such as the means of power of the government.
you follow with: "I follow exactly what is going on in Iraq everyday and I know that the success in Iraq is letting them have their country back to allow them to form the Iraq they want, most of the Muslim countries do not respect the US and don't want our values forced on them, they don't value democracy and extremists like Falwell and Robertson and King George offend them, George Bush is so disrespected throughout the world, Tony Blair, and Pakistan, and Hamid Karzi, only because Karzi was part of Unocal are about the only countries that approve of Bush. This is now a US vs them, and to think that Iraq is easy is a FANTASY, we are going to be there for years, probably betwee, 10-20 years if we keep trying to do what we are doing now, but if we get the repugs out of Office, by stopping all the rigging and Fraudulent voting, a democratic administration that actually thinks and has ethics and morality, something the Bush administration knows nothing about this war that was totally wrong and unjust will finally have an exit plan and the Iraqi people might be contempt with what is brought to the table. But this war will never end with corrupt immoral republicans that can do nothing but lie."
failing to refute, question or anwser a single point of mine; though you now state that Middle Easterners, rather then just Iraqies, don't want democracy... you've still fallen short of making a blantently racist comment, and you've still fallen short of saying that Iraqies (and middle easterners) don't want freedom...
I respond: "it may be true that not many in Iraq value democracy, judging by the compostion of oppostion groups to arise in Iraq after the first desert storm, I would guess that most Iraqies choise either p2p relations or decentrialized Soviets (councils) in place of Democracy... but at the same time, I have to wonder what makes YOU belive that Iraq, and the Middle East in general doesn't want democracy... and also wondering, how do you associate freedom and democracy?... cause surveys show that most Middle Easterners are angrey with the US because of there support of oppressive theocratic regimes, and also the US's un-ending support of Israel in there genocide of Palistein"
now, I admit I'm baiting you, I'm trying to disect your argument and see if it's racist or just (abit?) xenophobic, so I make a point of pointing out Iraqies quest for freedom through means other then Democracy to see if you will try refuting that.... and anti-authoritrians are usally liberatrians, so if middle easterners disapprove of the US cause of it's support of oppressive regimes it's probably because they don't like those those oppressive regimes and would favor a more libertarian one, and can we say that a libertarian regime has more freedom allowed to it's inhabints?... I'm just trying to point out that even if middle easterners don't want democracy, they still want freedom, I have to ask the question of how closely you tie freedom and democracy to see if you can seperate the two and grasp the idea of a free society without democracy...
you reply: "I try to make this very simple if the Iraqis wanted us in their country there would be a much more peaceful Iraq now, the Middle East for the most part Iran, Syria etc.. don't want us bullying the world.
As far as Israel, as a Jewish American, regardless of how religious I am because I am not religious, Israel is fighting against terrorists that are attacking them, they have every right to protect themselves from these attacks, no Israeli is safe from being killed by these terrorist organizations, and I support 100% on defending themselves, now, I don't agree with everything Sharon does, but I have to support Israel, it is my homeland. The genocide is unfounded if you pay attention to what the Israelis go through in their lives every single day not to be attacked by a suicide bomber. I have family their and these terrorist organizations must be stopped, just like Al-Qaeda, but Israel suffers attacks daily."
no shit, if Iraq wanted US troops there it would be much more peaceful... if you want a theif or a murder in your house, then it will be much more peacefull when one breaks in cause you won't resist them, will you... laying down to an intruder may get you peace, but only under the heel of oppression ("boot stamping on a human face" Bad Religion)
as for Israel, the systematic displacement of Palisteinians into a progressivly smaller area while being partitioned into smaller and smaller fragments and restricting all borders, air space and sea shore.... what do you call a walled village where the wall keep the people in?... a) a prision, b) a GHETTO.... now apply this inverted village wall to a whole nation, and what do you got: Palistein.... the Israelies displacement of Palsteinins and the "withdrawing of settlements" is merely regrouping as there being resettled largely still in Palistein, and there detroying the houses in the settlements so that Palisteinians can't use them... now, you try justifying genocide, instead of argueing what it is, you just try justifying it... I'm sure Hitler and Stalin could justify there genocides too...
another thing, why in the fuck do you find it nessicary to bring up being Jewish, it's relevent to NOTHING.
please anwser all questions asked, as it would be the first time you gave a decent anwser... thank you!
"religion is the opium of the masses"
Stop Recruitementflier, pag
Stop Recruitement
flier, page one (.pdf)
flier, page two (.pdf)
true Open dialouge
Draft
I thought this thread was about the draft and military recruitment. Instead it has seemed to have devolved into the US involvement in Iraq and voting fraud.
it is
That is what this thread is about, the troops being spread thin, the resistance of recruitment in schools and the resistance of the draft, however, their are some, not mentioning names, that start non-sequitur agruments and get us off track, I would love to discuss the objectives of this thread.
"The only thing necessary for the perpetuation of evil is for good people to do nothing." ~Jane Elliott
Hey Bill had a very short membership.
Dont let the door hit him...you know where.
Back to the topic.
starlizard
My son just turned 18. I never thought that he would end up facing the possible threat of a draft. But, despite the denials of our
"leaders", most of whom were successful in avoiding any military service, I believe there will be a draft before we finally are rid of George Bush.
We are not anti-military. Both myself and my wife are Air Force veterns. My son considered the Air Force Academy but decided that he would wait until after college to decide if he wanted a military career.
The possible draft has moved him to go ahead and enroll in a AFROTC
program so that he is already in it before the rush that they will get when a draft is implemented.
Ironically I believe that a draft will actually be good for the US military. Throughout my career I saw a definite tilt toward the right.
The draft will bring in people with more diverse views and backgrounds
politically.
The US military must be a non-political organization pledging its loyality to upholding and defending the constitution. Not some particular person, party or position.
I have seen too many officers the last few years who seem to forget that. So, despite the fact that I detest the idea of a draft, especially since it theatens to limit my son's choices, it may actually help correct the tilt I have seen.
Plus, it may actually wake a few people up to all the lies they are being fed.
Ok
The fact that people need to be woken up and shocked about the lies, and the crisis in this country can be justified as a prevailing ethos.
There is a resistance against the draft already, www.nodraftnoway.org.
"The only thing necessary for the perpetuation of evil is for good people to do nothing." ~Jane Elliott