Potential election fraud in New Hampshire?

  • Heather Wokusch's picture
    Heather Wokusch
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A number of sites are reporting odd discrepancies in the New Hampshire results. When the effect of voting machines is factored into the end count, then the polls would have been right and Obama would have won. We need to look at this BEFORE another primary…   

Here is what Democracy for New Hampshire had to say:

http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com/node/view/5307 

NH: "First in the nation" (with corporate controlled secret vote counting)

81% of New Hampshire ballots are counted in secret by a private corporation named Diebold Election Systems (now known as "Premier"). The elections run on these machines are programmed by one company, LHS Associates, based in Methuen, MA. We know nothing about the people programming these machines, and we know even less about LHS Associates. We know even less about the secret vote counting software used to tabulate 81% of our ballots. People like to say "but we use paper ballots! They can always be counted by hand!"   

But they're not. They're counted by Diebold. Only a candidate can request a hand recount, and most never do so. And a rigged election can easily become a rigged recount, as we learned in Ohio 2004, where two election officials were convicted of rigging their recount. (Is it just a funny coincidence that Diebold spokesman is named Mr. Riggall?

  

We need to get the count right on election night. Right now, nobody in New Hampshire, except the programmers at LHS Associates and Diebold Election Systems, knows if we are getting it right or wrong. Our state officials and representatives know this. They learned all about it when computer security specialists Harri Hursti and Bruce Odell testified before the legislative subcommittee on e-voting in September 2007 (Hursti's testimony is shown in this video). Scientific reports about the vulnerabilities and risks with Diebold optical scanners have been available since 2003. 

We love our state. It takes courage and strength to admit where we are going wrong and to fix it. May our state officials and representatives find that courage and strength soon. Before we lose the other 19% of our votes.  

 

Citizens for a Legitimate Government is running a tally for New Hampshire of 'Where Paper Prevailed, Different Results' :

http://www.legitgov.org/nh_machine_vs_paper.html  

 

 2008 New Hampshire Democratic Primary Results --Total Democratic Votes: 287,580 - Machine vs Hand (RonRox.com) 09 Jan 2008
Hillary Clinton, Diebold Accuvote optical scan: 40.121%
Clinton, Hand Counted Paper Ballots: 34.703%
Barack Obama, Diebold Accuvote optical scan: 35.756%
Obama, Hand Counted Paper Ballots: 38.785%
Machine vs Hand:
Clinton: 5.419% (15,584 votes)
Obama: -3.029% (-8,711 votes)   

 

2008 New Hampshire Republican Primary Results --Total Republican Votes: 238,909 Machine vs Hand (RonRox.com) 09 Jan 2008
Mitt Romney, Diebold Accuvote optical scan: 33.044%
Romney, Hand Counted Paper Ballots: 25.536%
Ron Paul, Diebold Accuvote optical scan: 7.233%
Paul, Hand Counted Paper Ballots: 9.235%
Machine vs Hand:
Romney: 7.509% (17,939 votes)
Paul: -2.112% (-4,781 votes)    

 

CLG’s Michael Rectenwald is careful to point out:The difference between results from hand-counting and machine-counting do not necessarily signify that the machine-counting is wrong. Other factors may be involved. For example, voting machines may have been used in wealthier, more moderate neighborhoods. There may not be a causal connection between machine-counted ballots and differing totals. One cannot assume that machines are necessarily wrong while hand-counting is necessarily right. –  

 

But the bottom line is this is serious and potentially speaks to yet another stolen election in 2008. Ideas?

Comments

The situation got so bad yesterday at DU that Skinner had...

tried to find whether or not the votes could have been rigged. Among the other posters on this thread of Skinner's, are two Statisticians who finally explain the way the votes/polls are put together:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add...

It is a bit complex and many posters at the end were unsatisfied with the explanation. The thread is quite long and by the end of it, I was actually dazed trying to assimilate all the info given.

An aside: Last night, about 5:30pm PT, a caller to the Gene Burns show on KGO San Francisco opened his call with a very high volume rapid fire rant on how the Clinton's brought in voters from surrounding states. This guy was really wound up. Another caller did some math and figured that what the guy charged would require at least 400 buses and about 20,000 voters. So, that particular bit of CT was discounted by simple logistics.

The claims of a fixed election started early yesterday on DU. Many threads on general discussion-politics board. Most of the posters have been part of the usual attack Hillary mob over there. Doubts about the election's validity increased in volume and we are left with what might be a tainted election. That would affect the entire election.

Anyway, the Skinner thread does show the math used and how it is used. Indications are that the election was honest and reflected the actual votes for all candidates.

Doubts remain. Read the Skinner thread and see what you can possibly contribute and offer any solution that comes to mind.

A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.

Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623

 

The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.

That thread has been removed,

  • kwahlf's picture
    kwahlf
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unfortunately.

I do know that the debate continues over at DU.

Paper ballots with paper receipts for all votes cast
eliminates this problem.

It's time to have another Boston Tea Party and throw all electronic
voting machines into the harbor.They can serve as artificial reefs for
the marine life there.

What we can be happy about is the large turnout for the Dems.
in N.H.

Yeah, NH had an over 80% turnout...

I'm going over to DU to find out what happened to Skinner's thread.

A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.

Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623

 

The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.

Election fraud is a very

  • Msfitts's picture
    Msfitts
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Election fraud is a very serious thing, and due to the reccent past we are more sensitive to it than ever (and rightly so).
I'd like to ask though, are Obama and Edwards crying "foul!" over this issue? Wouldn't they?
Would this issue be raised if Obama had placed first as the MSM predicted?
What helps repugs more than having Dems at each other's throats, fighting over "their" particular candidate, to the exclusion of other important things?
I'm just asking....

Msfitts, sensitive isn't a strong enough word ...

for what we are feeling about this kind of flim-flam game.

The first to complain early yesterday morning were Edward's supporters over at DU. They were quickly joined by the Obama supporters. Have not heard anything directly from any candidate.

By 10am yesterday(pt)this had exploded out of general discussion-politics into general discussion. It was this explosion of threads/attacks and so on that prompted Skinner of DU to do his own investigation. The thread I linked to has his conclusions and that of two statisticians.

As you say, the people are really skittish, with cause, of such accusations having to do with honest and fair elections.

The pre-election polls showed one set of totals. The hand count and machine counts are different. Neither jibes with the exit polls. Lots of other little glitches and problems. Mostly pretty esoteric effects/causes/reasons/probabilities.

Do read the Skinner thread. Its long and above my level, but there are some answers there.

No one in any responsible position has ventured into the fray as yet. There will be accusations enough for all to get into it.

A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.

Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623

 

The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.

The link didn't work for

  • Msfitts's picture
    Msfitts
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The link didn't work for me....I'll go on over to du and look more.

The Skinner Thread I've linked to...is gone...

you can however, still see what Skinner wrote when he started the thread including some explanation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/Skinner/230

this has some of the numbers he worked with.

A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.

Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623

 

The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.

Thanks, grinch.

  • Msfitts's picture
    Msfitts
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Thanks, grinch.

Bad Technology

  • dinamic's picture
    dinamic
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According to the demonstration tape on youtube it is just possible that there was no intentional tampering of the machines, but that the machines are just bad technology http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiiaBqwqkXs

Whatever the situation we have to get a voting system that is transparent and open to all voters. There is no excuse for all the secrecy about vote counting. Wake up America and insist that "we the people" know that all votes are counted and counted fairly.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross." ~ Sinclair Lewis

"I'm just pissed off that not enough other people are pissed off."~Bill Maher

Net Rumors

  • Bill Harding's picture
    Bill Harding
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This is just incredible. Otherwise sane people are running off in all directions at once because of a rumor, and supposition -- based on absolutely no factual evidence. This from Skinner at DU (where it all started appatrently):

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Skinner/231

“After careful consideration, the DU Administrators have come to the conclusion that this discussion has become disruptive and divisive to our community. If there were any credible evidence to support the allegation of fraud or voting machine malfunction in New Hampshire, then I would be more than willing to let the discussion continue in our two General Discussion forums. But at this point no such evidence has been produced. The horse has been beaten to death, propped back up, then beaten to death again. Everyone has said their piece (numerous times).”

He goes on to point out that the campaigns themselves have not made any assertions of fraud, and have accepted the results "as is."

Now please stop bashing Democrats based on nothing more than emotional super-hype from disgruntled supporters of the losing candidates.

Polls or Elections?

  • Jim's picture
    Jim
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In order to remove bias voters, patients, scientists, etc. should REVERSE the question.

In this case consider this:

Why believe a poll?

----------------------------

If someone is willing to introduce conjecture then do it both ways:

THE POLLS WERE RIGGED!

----------------------------

With a bit of conjecture balance restored take the time to actually look into the numbers.

Diebold

  • theBlueHighwayman's picture
    theBlueHighwayman
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Diebold willing to throw an election in favor of Hillary Clinton now that is news! Here I thought all Conservatives hated the Clintons. William Odell CEO of Diebold in 2003 promised to deliver the Ohio votes to Bush. Diebold is also a major Republican contributor. Strange indeed! Watch Hacking Democracy!

CA

Diebold, now Premier, has been fixing elections...

in favor of BushCo for years. Diebold voting machines were used in the more affluent suburbs in NH. The ordinary people were left with the 'old fashioned' paper and pencil ballots.

Premier of course, located in Dennis Kucinich's backyard, continues to manufacture and sell the infamous machines that gave Ohio to Bush in '06.

Despite exhaustive testing proving the machines could be easily 'fixed' for one candidate or another, they are still in use. Only Debra Bowen, Secretary of State of California, has gone so far as to ban the machines in her state--the reason she was elected to office.

The Republican Hate Machine, Repugnant operatives, Green operatives, trolls, and more are all alive and well and very much tampering with the Democratic Party's campaign. Newcomers to the election process are not aware of what is going on.

Not so much on this site, because dems.com tries to keep such interference out, but on other sites the attempted fix is pretty open and obvious.

Be careful with Repugnant talking points...they prevail as attacks against one or more of our candidates.

A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.

Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623

 

The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.