New Democrats And "Centrism"
The New Democrats in Congress are actually not Democrats at all -- they are thinly disguised remnants of Old Neoconservative Republicans. They profess to promote Neoliberal "centrism," and their PR defense (see Third Way) of this posture is that traditional Left-Right philosophies are outdated and "not working." Stop and think about that for a second.
Since the current Neoconservative Republicans have no such "centrist" organization (i.e., moving more to the Left) to deal with, what is the net outcome of this shift to the right by New Democrats? It is obvious that the only possible outcome is a marked imbalance in favor of Neoconservativism (corporate welfare/fascism) by the entire Congress. There are no traditional Liberal checks and balances left in place to offset the danger to our Constitution, or to prevent the corporate buying of our government. The American Moderate-Left has a noticeably diminished voice, and little meaningful representation in our Congress.
This has been blatantly apparent throughout the entire Dubya presidency, whether or not Democrats were "in control" of the two chambers. These "centrists" have voted time and time again to give the neocons everything they asked for, and then some. Most recently they helped to defeat a veto override on Children's Healthcare, and voted to protect the telecommunications industry from oversight and possible disciplinary proceedings for violating the Constitution. They were instrumental in not only appoving, but calling for, the invasion of Iraq. They helped to bring about the anti-Constitutional Patriot Act. They promoted and fought for Super Tuesday, and NAFTA. The list of anti-Constitutional, pro-Corporate, anti-American Worker votes by these corporate lackeys gets longer every minute of every day.
Until we rid the Democratic Party of Republicans posing as Democrats, it makes absolutely no difference who the next president will be. We Progressive/Liberal Democrats will not be represented (nor will most American voters) and the corporate fat cats will continue to enjoy all the representation that money can buy.
See this link for more detail about New Democrats:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats
For a full understanding of the DLC, the Third Way, and the Progressive Policy Institute (PPI), click on the other links in the above article.
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Absolutely correct Bill...a sad state of affairs to be sure...
Our three leading presidential candidates are not only CENTRISTS, but all three are now cozying up to the religious wacko right. The worst offencder is Obama(note the ad on our site page).
The Congress has to change because we are apparently powerless to change the direction of our presidential candidates. That is purely a state by state battle. Each centrist Rep. or Senator must be, not only challenged, but defeated--a situation that may take the first half of this current century.
My own personal opinion is that we have Scallywags for candidates. Politics have reached the point where decent people will not sully themselves to run and serve. That is, serve the country and Constitution instead of themselves.
Sad times ahead.
Might be time to take a good look at dividing the country into autonomous regions instead of states. Under such a plan, the primarily Red states would soon starve themselves and the more productive Blue states would not have to cope with what they are coping with now.
Perhaps the day of huge countries is coming to an end.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
<<Might be time to take a
<<Might be time to take a good look at dividing the country into autonomous regions instead of states. Under such a plan, the primarily Red states would soon starve themselves and the more productive Blue states would not have to cope with what they are coping with now.
Perhaps the day of huge countries is coming to an end.>>
Funny you should mention this, Grinch. It reminded me of something I'd seen earlier this year:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/30/AR2007033002076_pf.html
In Vermont, we see a picture of a state feeling bullied and disconnected from the rest of the republic. Could this be the shape of things to come?
Agreed,it time to consider a division of states.
For those of us who have been trying without success to end the Iraq war, a division of states would be the answer. The democrats who support Senator Clinton et. al., and the Iraq war, can be members of the red states. Once it is clear that the red states members will have to go and fight their own wars, it will be a matter of time before either,(a) all of the people in the red states are dead due to endless wars, or(b) they will accept that their preemptive wars are not worth their lives, and stop their foreign wars.
The survival of red states are slim to none. If they stop their foreign wars, they would more than likely end up in civil wars. They would continue their fights over religion, race,money,who is better than who, who is more superior etc. The warmongers entire belief system is based on hate, and greed. Once the people of the red states destroy themselves, the rest of us could retake the red states, make them blue, and hopefully live in a society of peace and justice.
"Blue Dog Democrats"
If a pro-war, free-trader like Diane Feinstein, for instance, were to do the honest thing and join the Republican Party, she would never get re-elected in California because the electorate there is heavily Democratic. So she does something even better, consistently voting with the Repugnicans while simultaneously preventing a "real Democrat" from holding her seat in Congress. She knows that the likelihood of a a primary challenge from her own party is almost nil, so she can regularly flip off her constituents, vote after vote, election after election. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana is another senator who is really more of a Repugnican than a Democrat, but she would never "jump ship" for the same reason. There are too many similar examples within the Democratic Caucus, in both houses of Congress.
The so called "Blue Dog" coalition, right-wing Democrats in the House of Representatives, consistently support Duh-bya on any issue related to "domestic security" and solidly vote to perpetuate this abominable Iraq war. For example, in a recent Iraq war re-appropriation bill, 40 of these Democraps voted against their own party by opposing a conditional proposal for a troop withdrawal timeline. 30 of them voted, in the face of overwhelming public opposition and the majority of their own party's caucus, to expand Bush power to spy on "terrorists" (i.e., political enemies--that's you, folks). Democraps like these creeps are a large part of the reason why impeachment is permanently "off-the table," as it realistically would not stand a chance of success with a virtual "fifth-column" lurking within the ranks of the party.
The ascendancy of these traitors was not a natural or spontaneous phenomenon. A concerted effort was made by certain Democratic Party insiders prior to the last midterm election to oppose Democratic candidates running anti-war campaigns and to support their pro-war primary challengers through selective application of campaign funding. This was in violation of Democratic Party bylaws, perhaps even illegal, and one can only hope that the good Democrats of Illinois kick Rahm Emmanuel into an early retirement.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/090607J.shtml
This excerpt from your Truthout.org
This excerpt from your Truthout.org link pretty much says it all about Rahm's DLC "Blue Dogs:"
"Thirteen of the Democratic members of the House elected in 2006 joined The Blue Dog Coalition; a group that, according to its spokesperson, has no official stance on withdrawal from Iraq or the president's warrantless wiretapping program. However, 30 out of 47 of the Blue Dog members broke with the majority of Democrats and cast votes in favor of the recent Protect America Act, a bill that greatly expanded the power of the executive branch to spy on Americans. The caucus also broke with the majority of Democrats when 40 of the Blue Dog members voted to continue funding the occupation of Iraq without a timetable for withdrawal."
These twits have no "official" stance on Iraq or domestic spying? Of course they have an "official" stance, and they demonstrate it every time they vote with the Republicans, and continue to enable Dubya and the neocons.
Their "official" stance, is to spit in the faces of the American voters who elected them to office, and demanded change.
Before blue turns to red...
...look for the purple, it's the inbetween color. It's a sure sign that some 'blue dog' or 'true blue liberal' is going red on us. It's that damned "third way" of Bill Clinton's, and that Centrist philosophy of the 90's. It opened the floodgates for Democritic-Hipocrats to pour through into the side where all the money is. And I believe that Hillary Clinton, if elected president, would completely tear down the levies and America would become one big New Orleans. Those critters in Congress who vote for more wiretapping yet claim to be Democrats are the purple people eaters, along with those who leave Dodd hanging out on the filibuster limb, or pander to the religious-right by trying to instill Christianity into their campaigns while visiting key states. It always goes from blue to red, almost never the other way 'round. How many Republicans have gravitated over to our side? A few conservative citizens who are fed up with Iraq are talking bluish talk, mostly because they have lousy candidates. If they had a Red Rider to inspire them, boy, they'd be cheering him on loudly and proudly. But I prefer that clear side-taking to the inbetween DLC purple gang who infiltrate our ranks and betray our causes.
A pot to piss in.
It all seems to go back to the ease with which one can instigate the guy without a pot to piss in to attack the guy with a shiny coffee can to piss in.
Until a real Democrat stands up and offers them BOTH a MASSIVE raise in income, its just too easy to get folks fighting over race, citizenship, sexual orientation, etc.
That standing up requires a moderate voice (in the true sense of the word) pissing off folks who are woefully overpaid, and therefore sucking capital from the vast majority.
(I realize the above is only one leg of the Democratic Party, but it's a leg that's been fully Republican for far too long.)
Hell it even bleeds over to other issues like Iraq:
Democrat of the week
Gotta love Pete Stark's comment this week in Congress when he skewered the pugs for not voting to override Bush's SCHIP veto: "You don't have money to fund the war or children," Stark accused Republicans. "But you're going to spend it to blow up innocent people if we can get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president's amusement." Now that's what I call an old-school, non-triangulating Democrat.
In true knee-jerk form, House Speaker Nancy "off-the-table" Pelosi immediately rebuked Stark's comments as "inappropriate" and "distracting." She couldn't actually let a member of her caucus get away with expressing the thoughts of 90% of his constituents. That's the kind of thing that could get out of hand. No, we Democrats don't want to be like "them." We must set a positive example by taking the "high-road" of "bipartisanship" as well as turning the other cheek whenever "they" screw us.
People like Pete Stark and Chris Dodd need all the support we can muster, at least in the form of an e-mail. As for Ms. Pelosi, I have a feeling Cindy Sheehan will give her more "partisanship" than she can handle in 2008.
I am a BLUE DOG and proud of it
This is to mainly first two persons. I am a blue dog and proud of it. Some of yall do not understand that liberalism and conservatism DOES NOT WORK. Most people most American are either independents or moderates.
Here is where I stand. I am for the programs that the Democratic Party have put in place. I am against the war in Iraq and I am against the wire tapping of American citizens.
I am against some of the views of the liberal/progessive wing of the Democratic Party like gay marriage, increase taxtion, among other things.
WIthout us so-called Blue Dogs and the conservative wing of the Democratic Party, the party would crease to exist much like the historic whig and federalist parties.
I have no problem with your
I have no problem with your Texas Dixiecrat perceptions of where you, as an individual, lean politically. What I do have a problem with is the phony "Blue Dogs" in Congress who consistently vote against the Constitution, for the Iraq war, and with the Republicans. They are NOT Conservatives, but Neoconservatives, and their leadership (Rahm Emanuel, et al) has been on the corporate welfare list for a long time.
Professional "Blue Dog" politicians are NOT Democrats, nor are they even patriots. They are neoconservative corporate pimps and traitors.
BIGJ, I disagree that you are against "increased taxation".
-The troops are paid below market wages so that the "taxes bad" folks can live off the economic welfare bestowed by said troops. That is sick.
-The recent debt put on us via Conservatives no longer collecting taxes from dead beat American Aristocrats (who don't have to work a day in their lives) means that the vast majority will have to pay.
-etc.
Now:
My point in dividing the personal from the political is to note that American Liberalism can be embraced by all working Americans. To remain divided on Economics and Taxation is killing this Nation by diverting capital from the vast majority.
Blue Dog Democrats are the political equivalent of...
the Log Cabin Repugnants.
One tends to wonder why either breed exists.
Blue Dogs are the major reason that any liberal bills fail to pass. Why impeachment and other controls for an out-of-control and criminal administration continue to screw the people, the country, and further the destruction of our Constitution.
Feel pure and enjoy your life...if THEY let you--Blue Dogs are quite simply, BushCo enablers.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
DO THE MATH
18% of Americans self identify as liberal
33% of Americans self identify as conservative
that leaves 49% that are left somewhere in the middle.
I'm somewhere in the middle, left of center, living in an overwhelmingly Republican dominated county. It makes an ENORMOUS differance which party is in control. Ignoring that undeniable fact is as unrealistic as ignoring where the majority of Americans are at on the political spectrum.
At this moment the overwhelming majority of those in the middle favor the policies of the Democratic party. Whatever party wins the middle, wins the White House and control of the House and Senate. When we win the White House, or 60 reliable votes in the Senate and solid control of the House, we can systematically begin to take this country back from the failed conservative movement that systematically took it from us.
mike kohr
Mike
I would simply argue that the folks who self identify as "somewhere in the middle" but also as "in favor of the policies of the Democratic Party" ARE Liberal by definition.
The Right's constant bashing of the word "Liberal" has succeeded in having folks run from the label.
I would be happy to retreat from a simple word and call all the sane folks "middle" if I did not see a real danger in it. What can be done to the word "Liberal" can be done to any other name.
At some point a line in the sand needs to be drawn.
Maybe I'm fighting a losing battle but I continue to champion a simple division between personal Liberalism and political Liberalism.
I gave an economic example in the post above.
A religious example would simply be:
-the Politically Liberal notion that Government should be neutral.
-the Personally Liberal notion of a particular religion or lack thereof.
We will remain divided by our personal world views and vote accordingly on THOSE points. The knee jerk reaction folks have toward each other however should not blind us on issues we actually agree upon.
Jim
"Liberal by definition"
Dead on Jim. The Wing Nuts of Right Wing Hate Radio and the Repblican Party has won a battle of words (largely because we allowed them to choose and define the battlefield), but lost the war that is ultimately won with competance and positive results. They've produced neither. On the other hand they have proven to be prodigious producers of fubar, failure and "F" up.
John Kennedy gave a speech once on what it means to be a Liberal. Every American needs to read it. Does anyone out there have a copy of it?
And let us not forget the most widely read of Liberal in recorded history, Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph the carpenter.
mike kohr
Here you go Mike, JFK's
Here you go Mike, JFK's speech about the meaning of American Liberalism:
http://www.myleftwing.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=539
SWEET!
Thanks again Bill!
mike kohr
And a tip of da hat to...
Mike and Bill ;)
thanks for finding
the Kennedy speech Bill. It's like stumbling onto a Rembrandt painting in a museum full of ugly mean-spirited art, ( I don't mean this forum, but the crazy right-wing media and mentality). JFK's thoughts throw a harsh light on our country now, and it's shocking to see how far astray America has gone from its truths and greatness. We have taken a terrible detour from our once beautiful path. Will we ever get back?
Most Middle Americans are
Most Middle Americans are fiscally conservative, and socially liberal. That is exactly what mainstream Democrats are (and mainstream Republicans used to be) as well -- we ARE the "moderates." The United States of America was founded on Moderate Liberal principles.
It is the far-right wingers who have framed this either/or definition of Liberalism vs. Conservatism. They have spent well over a decade pumping propaganda into the atmosphere, with a consistent theme of "have you stopped beating your wife" type of rhetoric. They have falsely equated Liberalism with "weak," and Conservativism with "strong." They have divided Americans into two separate groups with the help of Will Marshall and his "centrist" Third Way DLC New Democrats.
Many who describe themselves as "Independents," have given up on trying to return our Party to its rightful grassroots owners. They believe that they are being "moderates," while nothing could be further from the truth. They have taken the easy, instant-gratification, way out. Those 18% of us who proudly wear both the Democratic AND Liberal labels are left with the hard work of cleaning up our Party, and returning it to its former American Liberal values. The same values that won WWII, and went to the Moon.
Whether they realize it, or not, most Middle Americans are Moderate Liberals, and that 48% you point out (many of whom don't vote) are the victims of their own apathy and a false sense of "moderation."
For those who do vote, many have it backwards as well. We shouldn't vote for individuals who spend millions telling us what they believe, but rather we should vote for individuals who believe as we do, and who promise to first and foremost uphold the Constitution. That is the definition of representative government.
What's a fiscal conservative?
I think a definition of "Fiscal Conservative" is in order. My personal take on it is to put revenue and expenditures in the proper priority. For example, we shouldn't spend another nickel in an unnecessary overseas military conflict until every person who is at risk of losing their home because of illness is taken care of.
That is quite different from the republican interpretation of it is, which is that tax cuts for the wealthy cure everything.
WB GM! You got it exactly
WB GM! You got it exactly correct. Real fiscal conservatism is spending Americans' tax dollars on Americans in order to improve their lives. Today's neoconservative Republicans, and Blue Dog Democrats, call this "welfare," and view it as some sort of a give-away program for bums and addicts.
What better way to spend tax money, than for the well-fare, and well-being, of our citizens who, through no fault of their own, can not provide for their own health care, or basic needs? This includes the young, the elderly, the sick (both mentally and physically), and the disenfranchised. This is where the "socially Liberal" nature of most Americans comes into play.
All recent Republican administrations have built up massive deficits by spending our reduced tax dollars (and borrowed money) on "corporate welfare," and military expansion. They justify this by claiming that they have reduced taxes (only on the wealthy) -- and call it good-for-the-economy "trickle down." The only thing that is trickling down, is the massive debt, and crumbling infrastructure, that they will leave to our children and grandchildren.
What reduced tax dollars?
I don't know about you, but the AMT is killing me. A couple years ago, I went thru all of my tax returns over that last ten years, and when you add it ALL up (including state, local, fees on registrations, and such) I have EXACTLY the same tax burden as I did before.
The Bush administration is not reducing spending (minor understatement) while cutting taxes which would be the fiscally adult thing to do. Eventually servicing their huge debt will push out any social programs, or force the impending Democratic administration to raise taxes, which is exactly what they want for political ammunition.
Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind paying more in taxes if we get something out of it, helping people here.
I should have said
I should have said "reduced top 10% tax dollars." Middle class tax rates have stayed the same, or increased, but the overall national tax income has declined as spending goes up.
Any CEO who took his company from a budget surplus to over $9 trillion dollars in debt and reduced income, would have been long gone:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Like Harkin Energy
Why hasn't John Q. Public tried to fire this guy?
Our elected "Board of
Our elected "Board of Directors" are all wimps, or on the take...
Split the Difference--Is the real problem with DLC/Blue Dogs
IMO, The GOP and DLC?BlueDogs share the same world view regarding Voters and Voting. The people who vote are naturally those who have the most stake in the process. Wealthy, Upper Class and More Educated. Let's be honest, more Republicans in this group.
The Democrats and Republicans compete for this group of
voters. The DLC/Blue Dogs have to run Republican Lite
to have a chance at winning. When the voting is over
they have a strong Republican Consituency. Therefore
when they vote in Congress, they have to vote GOP
because of their consituency. Fear GOP voters who
voted for them and take Democrats for granted--even
though they are supposed Democratic Senators and
Congressmen. Split the difference, Folks.
One Half the country does not vote because the
Democratic Party abandoned them years ago.
Yep we may need to divide the country--Blue and Red.
So, your defense of DLC
So, your defense of DLC "centrists" and Blue Dogs is that they need to lie in order to be elected? Why don't they just switch Parties and be honest with their constituents? As stated earlier, the Republicans have no such "centrist" group, and in that respect are more honest with the voting public.
Your assertion that Republicans are somehow superior in wealth, class, and education is not based in fact. From all accounts, most of the Red States are inferior to Blue states in the areas of wages, living standards, and education.
Bill Harding, I was not in any way shape or form defending the
DLC. Rather, I was stating the sorry state of affairs
in which we find ourselves.
Perhaps I should not have said the DLCers/BlueDogs
have to run as Republican Lite. I should say the powers
chose to do this. This is the whole basis for DLC.
Al From refers to it as the "Likely Voters Strategy"
Every Poll using Likely Voters in cluding Gallop tell
you the poll is weighted toward Republicans because
Republicans are more likely to vote.
Do I like the fact that our Party writes off one half the
country in order to compete for this narrow part of
the electorate. Heck No. I have lost no love on the
DLC.
I am realistic enough to know things cannot change
this election. It is too late for real change. Once
again we will be taken for granted.
At some point, hopefully, someone will step forth and
we can start a truly Democratic Party.
You are right on. The Red States are some of the
poorest. Historically, Conservatism(be it Democratic
or Republican) has reigned in these states. You
only have to look to see the results. Economic
Conservatism begets a society of few rcih and very
rich at the top and then the rest. Brings on and
widens gap betweeen rich and poor. It is the economic
conservatism of DLC/Blue Dogs which will bite them
in the end. For right now, we hope.
DLC
D
OHLib10, you are correct on
OHLib10, you are correct on most of your points, but I just wanted to clarify what you posted earlier.
Where we disagree somewhat, is where the blame for the lack of Democratic voters belongs. You seem to believe that the Democratic Party (and by that I mean the DNC) is to blame for avoiding some Red States during the campaigns. Since most of our recent electable candidates have been groomed and financed by the corporate sponsors of the DLC, I maintain that the DLC and the Blue Dogs are the main reason that we have lost elections for over a decade. Since these traitors represent corporations, and not voters, they are NOT the "Democratic Party." They are neocon panderers who are in it strictly for the money, and that is why they lie to get elected.
Next, the real Democratic Party is made up of grassroots voters just like you and me, who elect our DNC leaders through a democratic process. The fact that many former self-described "Democrats" have either chosen to become "Independents," Greenies, or "Other-Lefties," shows me nothing but apathy and cowardice. Running from the problem of a DLC-influenced shift to neoconservatism, by dropping out of the fight, is taking the easy way out, and typical of the "instant gratification" generation. It is unpatriotic and un-American.
I am tired of hearing that I must try to "understand" and cater to Independents, Greenies, and other apathetic voters who choose not to fight for the Democratic Party. I am tired of their threats to withhold their votes, like a child holding its breath until it gets candy. I am tired of being told that the fault lies with the Democratic Party, when we are the Democratic Party.
It is the DLC, and the Republican-Lite Blue Dogs who have hijacked my Democratic Party, and I damned well mean to do everything in my power to take it back from them. I welcome the help of the drop outs, but only if they return to the Party, and help the rest of us with the fight from within. Otherwise, they are nothing but spoilers, and their only contribution is to enable the neoconservatives in both mainstream political Parties.
This is no longer a Liberal vs. Conservative battle -- it is a fight between American Democracy and multi-national Corporate Fascism.
Bill - I can't agree with you more
I posted the "Losing Hope" diary. I feel exactly as you do, but can't say it as well.
Thanks, and I've been
Thanks, and I've been following your forum with great interest.
Just so EVERYONE is absolutely clear.
I agree with Bill Harding. The Problem for the Party is the
DLC/Blue Dogs. This has been my position for years.
If we lose this time, the DLC had best do a lot of soul
searching.
Give the people the choice between a Real Republican
and a fake Republican and they will choose the real
Republican everytime.
I fear right now the Dems on the Hill are going to lose
it for all Democrats. What has held up Legislation very
often-- SOME DLC and BLUE DOGS vote with the GOP
rather than their own party. It is obvious they are more
concerned with Republican Consituents than Democratic Constiuents. After all many of them played "Split the Difference". in getting elected.
Howard Dean and DNC have worked very hard to change
things and deserve much credit for their hard work. It takes time.