"Daybreak urgently reminds us that good political intentions are not sufficient to ensure the continuation of our democracy; informed vigilance is vital to that task."
-Mark Karlin, editor of Buzzflash.com
If circumstances were to drop in place based on natural laws of behavior, impeachment would surely include Cheney as well. When, and if that happens, what are some issues that you would have President Pelosi fight for ?
Submitted by okcitykid on December 11, 2006 - 12:26am.
Bring our troops home now!
Make our great nation once again a leader of solutions not problems.
I'm tired of all this talk about alternative fuels - Dummest idea ever. If all of our cars ran on alternative fuels, how would we feed the world? What happened to Hydrogen? Wasn't it six years ago we invested all this money into it and GM was going to be the first auto company to produce the Hydrogen car? Stop the lies and treating us like we're stupid. Like Impeachment is off the table because we're not vengeful - what a bunch of BS - Why is impeachment off the table REALLY. Harboring a criminal is just as much of a crime.
Submitted by catadams on December 13, 2006 - 3:56am.
"Dumb is as Dumb does" Our troops serve at the pleasure of the President and the President serves at the pleasure of the people. In order to show our pleasure or displeasure with the President we have something call elections. Whinning, crying and calling for impeacement because you disagree with the President is vengeful and a waste of tax payers time and money. Much of the information put out on these blogs are inaccurate or at best taken out of context but unfortunely if something is repeated enough it begins to take on a life of its on and people begin to think it is true. The "Bush lied" is one example. News Flash! Elected officals in our government work for us and should be accountable to us but that does not mean that we have the right to make public information that endangers the safety of our nation. We as Americans live in a democracy where we have agreed to live by the majority vote and all duly elected officals deserve the respect of all of our citizens especially the President. When we disrespect our President- we disrespect our country.
I was interested in what you were saying about alternative fuels but found it confusing, what with GM, money, Hydrogen car,and how that ties in with lies , treating us like we are stupid, impeachment, and harboring a criminal.Can anyone clear this up for me?
Submitted by grinch (not verified) on December 13, 2006 - 4:41am.
No one seemed to complain when the Repugnants wasted 100 million dollars on Clinton's investigation and impeachment did they. At least, they didn't make much noise.
That said, you say impeachment is a wasted effort. Why so? You do understand that the Constitution mandates such a trial in the cases of high crimes and misdemeanors. It is not a choice. Somehow, while reading our Constitution, you failed to recognize this fact. Try again.
I hope that you understand that this is a private site. It is not the DNC site, neither is it freerepublic. Our members speak for themselves. Some you may agree with, some you may not.
As a matter of fact, we do own the Congress. Who says so? The Preamble to the Constitution and the Constitution itself.
As to the lying, cheating, stealing, mass-murdering, of this administration, most of it is clearly documented. What they have done is quite clear. What they are about is clearly contained within the PNAC document. For a blueprint of what they are attempting, see page 51 of the PNAC document. If you have not read this amazing piece of documentation, then you are blowing smoke out of both ears.
Further, you make no claims that the media is a party to this perversion of an administration. They are...in some cases, it has been documented that they are in the pay of the Bush Cabal. So far, it has been a 6 year honeymoon between the Bush administration and the MSM.
Criminals, like this administration do not deserve the respect that you call for.
You seem to be out in space with your comments. Lies? What lies do you not know about?
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Submitted by gabbosgold on December 12, 2006 - 7:16pm.
Their is quite a upstir over Pelosi saying that impeachment was not on the table. Like Cyndi Sheehan said in a speech to the ethics commitee "We the People, set our own damn plate!" And that is why we voted for a change of congress. Democrats like Pelosi should not have promised that to Bush when they met earlier. To show our strength each one of us needs to send a personal letter to our senators & representatives demanding impeachment. Does anyone need a reason ?
Submitted by Kathyschroeder on December 12, 2006 - 8:13pm.
I think Bush wants to be impeached. I think that Karl Rove thinks the Dems will start the war over impeachment and that will help them in the presidential. Rove is wrong. It will not be the Dems who propose impeachment, the GOP is so desparate that they are already talking impeachment.
The religious fanatics are wondering around looking up at the sky, their conservative kingpin and his witchy wife have a lesbian daughter who is pregnant, the religious right lost Ted Haggard, corruption up the ying yang....we need leadership, and the Dems will provide that. The GOP left us with a real quagmire, the lazy SOB's, but the Dems will get the job done. So, leave Pelosi alone, let her do her job. We want to win in 2008, crazy liberals like Cindy Sheehan are hurting the Democratic Party, she needs to stop. She has made her point. But that kind of drastic action hurts our chances in 2008.
I think people need to stop getting all bent out of shape over Pelosi not falling all over them to please. Winning back the House and Senate took alot of work and strategy and we had to assure the American people that the Dems are there to serve, to get things done. The Republicans have done nothing since they got into power except steal, lie, take bribes, chase young men, the GOP actually thinks your a sinner if your a straight heterosexual male who likes football and women. They are in big trouble. Bush and his polls at 24% and going down is killing the GOP. So it will be the GOP who will carry the torch to imnpeachment or censure. They will eat their own. Bush is destroying the party, doesn't care and we should just let the GOP rant and rave.
As Democrats we have the business of the people at hand and that is what we are going to do. The American People need to take a civics and government class. They are yelling about the Dems doing nothing, well they can't do anything until they are in power.
You know the GOP is in shreds when Trent Lott gets his minority seat back. What a joke.
Submitted by Bill Harding on December 12, 2006 - 9:29pm.
We want to win in 2008, crazy liberals like Cindy Sheehan are hurting the Democratic Party, she needs to stop. She has made her point.
Crazy Liberals? Are you calling the owner and founder of this blog a "crazy Liberal" for his support of Cindy Sheehan? Are you calling most of the members of Democrats.com "crazy" because we are Liberals and damned proud of it?
This nation was founded on Liberal values and principles, and Cindy Sheehan is exactly correct: "We, the people, set our own damned plate." Nancy Pelosi is just hired help, and her job is what we tell her it is.
Submitted by Punk Rocker on December 13, 2006 - 7:27am.
Since the midterm elections I have heard much talk about how the netroots groups have the power now in politics. I honestly do not believe this. In my opinion the main reason that Democrats won was because Americans are tired of Bush and the alternative is the Democrats. Americans are tired of all the mistakes that Bush has made and the only option is the Democrats. While all of the netroot groups did provide little help, they have no real power. Most Americans do not frequent sites like this to talk about politics, they drink their beer and watch TV and catch some story on the news and if all the news is bad then they get tired of Bush and the Republicans. Do you believe that if some group were to contact members of Congress to push for a cause would the Congressman actually listen or would they just brush off the group? Also the impeach bush petition on this website while it has the best intentions do you believe that Congress cares how many people sign it? I have come to realize that politics is very dirty and that sometimes criminals get away with their acts.
Submitted by grinch (not verified) on December 13, 2006 - 7:47am.
attention and times when they try not to. Here is one example from before we got as organized as we are now....
Following selection 2000, Tom Daschle placed this notice on his website:
"Bush is our president and we must follow the president."
His phone, his emails, and his mailbox were so overwhelmed within 24 hours, that he pulled the notice. Note that Tom would like to be pretzeldent too. Fat Chance!
As for open and honest communications with the leadership, ever try to make contact with the DLC? It can be quite an experience.
We do not have the power we need, but we are moving in that direction. Takes time and lots of effort. The media is somewhat afraid of what the net can do and has done over the past 6 years. So are the corporate whores.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Submitted by grinch (not verified) on December 12, 2006 - 9:30pm.
crazy liberal to Cindy Sheehan. She is a mother who lost a son to this insane war. Whatever she chooses to do, she remains a lightning rod directing the right sort of energy at the Bush Cabal. We need a lot more like her, not fewer.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Submitted by Kathyschroeder on December 13, 2006 - 12:08am.
I mean no disrespect to Cindy or any other parent who has lost a child in this war that was waged on a fool's errand. So please accept my apology if it seemed that way.
I disagree however that Cindy is still a lightning rod. The stakes are high in 08'. I have worked for the Democratic Party all of my life. I have been in the trenches and I know how the extreme can hurt us. We are running a national campaign once again and we have ground to cover that will demand that we change our approach. The Democrats learned in the midterms that we cannot push all of our ideas on the entire country, we must take it state by state and understand the issues in that state. Our foreign policy is at the top of my list but our domestic policiy is in the toilet. We have people homeless, starving, the middleclass is shrinking, there are so many issues we are facing. I believe it is our duty as citizens to question the government, protest if we must. I also believe that we can also present ourselves in a civil manner. Cindy can do whatever she pleases, we understand her cause. I merely wish she would take off the oversized jackets, dress herself up a bit, and sit down and have calm discussions with conservatives across the country, now that is when we can make a difference. Right now from the left and the faltering right she is perceived as too extreme. yes, yes, yes, I know she lost a son, I lost my father and many friends in VietNam, I know the pain. I can't say I know the pain of losing a son but I am a woman, and I do understand. We as democrats must be able to discuss issues without getting upset or offended. The 2008 election will be the most important election of our lifetime. If we do not take the White House in 08' we are leaving the next generations in a shambles and certainly our party can see that calm and intelligence and common sense will win out at the end of the day.
We have the extreme right and the extreme left and they hurt our party. We will just have to agree to disagree, but there is a correct way to approach 50 states to get the job done. Why can't Cindy put on a dress, and step out to sit down in town hall meetings across the country with the soccer moms and rationally discuss her own experience and what lies ahead if we keep the GOP in power in Washington. Is that asking too much. Does she have to sit in on every single protest that certain political groups take her to, most of the time these groups are only using her to push their own agenda. I know the groups that she has worked with and I realize that she is hurt and naive about the process but she can make a huge difference with a little change. Mothers across the country whether they be far right or left will welcome her with open arms, but does it hurt to clean up a bit. We know she hurts, but it is time to show the class that she does have and sit down and rationally discuss these issues. I am not bashing her, what I feel is the truth.
Cindy Sheehan's protests, arrests, etc., did not win the mid terms, what won the midterms was Americans finally waking up to the fact that this appointed president has destroyed all relationships around the world, we have no allies. Thanks to mr. cowboy. Sure, she helped raise awareness, but the corruption being exposed and the elements of the war and this stubborn moron we have in the White House won the elections for us. We can win the White House but we have to be smart about it.
I am more concerned right now about the White House and keeping McCain out. He is a hawk who is just biting at the bit to send more of our children into battle. These websites like the Democratic Underground do nothing but undermine the Democratic Party. We have to think smart and know the issues. We must have talking points that are delivered daily to fight the right wing press as they try to spin our message into a negative. This is what is important. Again, I meant no harm about Cindy but I stand by what I said the extreme left and right hurt us, period.
I want to win. I will work for the Democratic Party and do all I can do. But, I will not scream my message, or participate in a sit in, I want to educate the voters, I want to make sure that every single vote counts and I want a paper trail. There are more talking points but this is the direction I must take.
Sorry for upsetting you. I meant no disrespect to Cindy.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." -- John Quincy Adams
Submitted by donsluck on December 13, 2006 - 8:01pm.
I think most Democrats would agree that one of the biggest mistakes of the neocons is the desire to win regardless of the cost. We must not become neocons in our thirst for victory in 2008. In fact, I believe if all branches of government were controlled by
Democrats it would be just as destructive as the last four years of Republican rule have been.
We must stand up for justice. We must impeach Bush as a matter of justice, not of political expediency.
Submitted by DavidHP on December 16, 2006 - 12:39am.
I am a registered democrat, however when democrats continue to allow the politicians to forget who elected them and what is expected of them once they are elected we get what we have now, apologists for voting to support an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation, the trampling of constitutional civil rights, and continued economic favors to big business at the expense of working people.
I disagree with your premise that the left wing of the democratic party is the problem. The left wing is what demands the party remember its roots. The moderates are the party members who allow the war to continue, who allow the Bush administration to continue to actively attack the labor movement, to allow the rapid erosion of civil rights.
Until the democratic party takes strong action to make change, it remains part of the problem on why the American middle class is eroding while the super rich get richer, on why American service members continue to die in an illegal occupation of Iraq, and why Bush still feels comfortable rattling sabers at Iran, Syria, and North Korea.
As a party member, definitely in the left wing, I demand that the politians elected as democrats DO SOMETHING NOW to make change. So far I am still unconvinced that will happen.
I don't care how Cindi Sheehan dresses and think that is really a superficial issue in comparsion to demanding a end to the war now.
I'm sorry for your loss of your father. I am a veteran who served in Southeast Asia myself and the father of an active duty soldier who has already served one tour in the war zone and is on the list to go back and I am unwilling to see one more GI die for Bush's war. The politicians aren't doing enough to stop this cycle of death and destruction so it is up to the people to demand action and hold all politicians accountable regardless of party. No democrat gets a free ride.
The people must make it very clear to those elected this year that they were elected to make change including ending this war, if they don't do, they will be held accountable. Now we are holding Bush and Cheney accountable for their crimes by demanding impeachment which is required by the constitution when politicans violate the law and constitution of the United States.
Accountability not vengence is what impeachment is all about.
Submitted by okcitykid on December 13, 2006 - 12:01am.
I don't think you should be calling Cindy Sheehan a crazy liberal. She is the mother of every veteran who wishes their brothers and sisters could come home.
If Nancy is going to suck up to the Republicans, she should be treated like one. She is not much better than the criminal she protects.
If you had a brother or sister, your mother or father, or son or daughter, DIE because of Bush's lie than you might be a crazy liberal too.
WHAT IS REALLY WRONG IS WHEN WE DECIDE THAT DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN COMES FIRST AND RIGHT AND WRONG COME SECOND.
Do you believe in justice? then serve justice - put impeachment back on the table.
If you don't believe in justice, then every criminal should be treated equal at least. Why should one be president and the rest go to jail.
IMPEACH BUSH - Because it's the right thing to do.
Submitted by gabbosgold on December 13, 2006 - 10:37pm.
Thanks Bill Harding, and all of you for giving your viewpoints. It appears that impeachment is MANDATORY! The question now is...how do we make it STICK !!??
Here is a link that shows a guideline of plans before W. took office through PNAC, it includes 911 also as the "New Pearl Harbor". This is proof of what a disastrous plan the Bush Cabal was following. Absolute Corruption.
Submitted by democrat_with_se ... on December 14, 2006 - 11:32pm.
Could somebody please tell me what crimes the presidnet committed? He was certainly wrong in invading Iraq but it seemed he went through it in a legal matter. If I am missing something, which I very well could be, I would like to know. Otherwise, I just assume we stay away from Impeachment and maintain our party's respect. We don't need to stoop to their lever.
Submitted by Bill Harding on December 15, 2006 - 12:26am.
Let's see -- where to begin...?
1) Lying to and deceiving Congress about the need to invade a sovereign nation (deliberately "fixing" the intellegence: no WMD, no involvement in 9/11, no "yellow cake") in order to gain the necessary "legal power" to invade;
2) Illegal secret wiretapping of American citizens without court authorization;
3) Contravention of the Geneva Conventions, and American law, in authorizing torture, and denying habeus corpus to detainees;
4) Using illegal "signing statements" to ignore legislation Constitutionally passed by Congress; and,
5) Breaking his oath to "preserve and protect" the Constitution of the United States of America, as detailed above (an impeachable offense in, and by, itself).
There are most likely additional criminal acts committed by Dubya and his administration (see Abramoff, DeLay, etc.) and only thorough investigations by Congress will be able to determine the extent of his culpability.
Other than these crimes, he has mismanaged the environment, governed for his corporate backers -- instead of the People, and destroyed decades of US diplomatic progress around the world. In any other capacity, that would be called dereliction of duty, and misconduct (a synonym for "misdemeanors").
Bring our troops home
Bring our troops home now!
Make our great nation once again a leader of solutions not problems.
I'm tired of all this talk about alternative fuels - Dummest idea ever. If all of our cars ran on alternative fuels, how would we feed the world? What happened to Hydrogen? Wasn't it six years ago we invested all this money into it and GM was going to be the first auto company to produce the Hydrogen car? Stop the lies and treating us like we're stupid. Like Impeachment is off the table because we're not vengeful - what a bunch of BS - Why is impeachment off the table REALLY. Harboring a criminal is just as much of a crime.
Roger
The Okcitykid
Bring our Troops Home
Hey, Okcitykid, I totally agree, bring them home now. Let Halliburton hire their own security and get out of Iraq.
Where has Cheney been? He is no where to be found when the hard questions and issues are being discussed in the light of day.
Bring our tropps home, alt
"Dumb is as Dumb does" Our troops serve at the pleasure of the President and the President serves at the pleasure of the people. In order to show our pleasure or displeasure with the President we have something call elections. Whinning, crying and calling for impeacement because you disagree with the President is vengeful and a waste of tax payers time and money. Much of the information put out on these blogs are inaccurate or at best taken out of context but unfortunely if something is repeated enough it begins to take on a life of its on and people begin to think it is true. The "Bush lied" is one example. News Flash! Elected officals in our government work for us and should be accountable to us but that does not mean that we have the right to make public information that endangers the safety of our nation. We as Americans live in a democracy where we have agreed to live by the majority vote and all duly elected officals deserve the respect of all of our citizens especially the President. When we disrespect our President- we disrespect our country.
I was interested in what you were saying about alternative fuels but found it confusing, what with GM, money, Hydrogen car,and how that ties in with lies , treating us like we are stupid, impeachment, and harboring a criminal.Can anyone clear this up for me?
Cat...I shall try to answer your query to...
No one seemed to complain when the Repugnants wasted 100 million dollars on Clinton's investigation and impeachment did they. At least, they didn't make much noise.
That said, you say impeachment is a wasted effort. Why so? You do understand that the Constitution mandates such a trial in the cases of high crimes and misdemeanors. It is not a choice. Somehow, while reading our Constitution, you failed to recognize this fact. Try again.
I hope that you understand that this is a private site. It is not the DNC site, neither is it freerepublic. Our members speak for themselves. Some you may agree with, some you may not.
As a matter of fact, we do own the Congress. Who says so? The Preamble to the Constitution and the Constitution itself.
As to the lying, cheating, stealing, mass-murdering, of this administration, most of it is clearly documented. What they have done is quite clear. What they are about is clearly contained within the PNAC document. For a blueprint of what they are attempting, see page 51 of the PNAC document. If you have not read this amazing piece of documentation, then you are blowing smoke out of both ears.
Further, you make no claims that the media is a party to this perversion of an administration. They are...in some cases, it has been documented that they are in the pay of the Bush Cabal. So far, it has been a 6 year honeymoon between the Bush administration and the MSM.
Criminals, like this administration do not deserve the respect that you call for.
You seem to be out in space with your comments. Lies? What lies do you not know about?
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Louis Pasteur
Who Sets America's Plate ? Us or Them ?
Their is quite a upstir over Pelosi saying that impeachment was not on the table. Like Cyndi Sheehan said in a speech to the ethics commitee "We the People, set our own damn plate!" And that is why we voted for a change of congress. Democrats like Pelosi should not have promised that to Bush when they met earlier. To show our strength each one of us needs to send a personal letter to our senators & representatives demanding impeachment. Does anyone need a reason ?
Things Change
I think Bush wants to be impeached. I think that Karl Rove thinks the Dems will start the war over impeachment and that will help them in the presidential. Rove is wrong. It will not be the Dems who propose impeachment, the GOP is so desparate that they are already talking impeachment.
The religious fanatics are wondering around looking up at the sky, their conservative kingpin and his witchy wife have a lesbian daughter who is pregnant, the religious right lost Ted Haggard, corruption up the ying yang....we need leadership, and the Dems will provide that. The GOP left us with a real quagmire, the lazy SOB's, but the Dems will get the job done. So, leave Pelosi alone, let her do her job. We want to win in 2008, crazy liberals like Cindy Sheehan are hurting the Democratic Party, she needs to stop. She has made her point. But that kind of drastic action hurts our chances in 2008.
I think people need to stop getting all bent out of shape over Pelosi not falling all over them to please. Winning back the House and Senate took alot of work and strategy and we had to assure the American people that the Dems are there to serve, to get things done. The Republicans have done nothing since they got into power except steal, lie, take bribes, chase young men, the GOP actually thinks your a sinner if your a straight heterosexual male who likes football and women. They are in big trouble. Bush and his polls at 24% and going down is killing the GOP. So it will be the GOP who will carry the torch to imnpeachment or censure. They will eat their own. Bush is destroying the party, doesn't care and we should just let the GOP rant and rave.
As Democrats we have the business of the people at hand and that is what we are going to do. The American People need to take a civics and government class. They are yelling about the Dems doing nothing, well they can't do anything until they are in power.
You know the GOP is in shreds when Trent Lott gets his minority seat back. What a joke.
We want to win in 2008,
Crazy Liberals? Are you calling the owner and founder of this blog a "crazy Liberal" for his support of Cindy Sheehan? Are you calling most of the members of Democrats.com "crazy" because we are Liberals and damned proud of it?
This nation was founded on Liberal values and principles, and Cindy Sheehan is exactly correct: "We, the people, set our own damned plate." Nancy Pelosi is just hired help, and her job is what we tell her it is.
Since the midterm elections
Since the midterm elections I have heard much talk about how the netroots groups have the power now in politics. I honestly do not believe this. In my opinion the main reason that Democrats won was because Americans are tired of Bush and the alternative is the Democrats. Americans are tired of all the mistakes that Bush has made and the only option is the Democrats. While all of the netroot groups did provide little help, they have no real power. Most Americans do not frequent sites like this to talk about politics, they drink their beer and watch TV and catch some story on the news and if all the news is bad then they get tired of Bush and the Republicans. Do you believe that if some group were to contact members of Congress to push for a cause would the Congressman actually listen or would they just brush off the group? Also the impeach bush petition on this website while it has the best intentions do you believe that Congress cares how many people sign it? I have come to realize that politics is very dirty and that sometimes criminals get away with their acts.
Punk...there are times when the 'leadership' does pay...
attention and times when they try not to. Here is one example from before we got as organized as we are now....
Following selection 2000, Tom Daschle placed this notice on his website:
"Bush is our president and we must follow the president."
His phone, his emails, and his mailbox were so overwhelmed within 24 hours, that he pulled the notice. Note that Tom would like to be pretzeldent too. Fat Chance!
As for open and honest communications with the leadership, ever try to make contact with the DLC? It can be quite an experience.
We do not have the power we need, but we are moving in that direction. Takes time and lots of effort. The media is somewhat afraid of what the net can do and has done over the past 6 years. So are the corporate whores.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Louis Pasteur
Kathy, you are really wrong when you apply the term...
crazy liberal to Cindy Sheehan. She is a mother who lost a son to this insane war. Whatever she chooses to do, she remains a lightning rod directing the right sort of energy at the Bush Cabal. We need a lot more like her, not fewer.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Louis Pasteur
Please let me explain
I mean no disrespect to Cindy or any other parent who has lost a child in this war that was waged on a fool's errand. So please accept my apology if it seemed that way.
I disagree however that Cindy is still a lightning rod. The stakes are high in 08'. I have worked for the Democratic Party all of my life. I have been in the trenches and I know how the extreme can hurt us. We are running a national campaign once again and we have ground to cover that will demand that we change our approach. The Democrats learned in the midterms that we cannot push all of our ideas on the entire country, we must take it state by state and understand the issues in that state. Our foreign policy is at the top of my list but our domestic policiy is in the toilet. We have people homeless, starving, the middleclass is shrinking, there are so many issues we are facing. I believe it is our duty as citizens to question the government, protest if we must. I also believe that we can also present ourselves in a civil manner. Cindy can do whatever she pleases, we understand her cause. I merely wish she would take off the oversized jackets, dress herself up a bit, and sit down and have calm discussions with conservatives across the country, now that is when we can make a difference. Right now from the left and the faltering right she is perceived as too extreme. yes, yes, yes, I know she lost a son, I lost my father and many friends in VietNam, I know the pain. I can't say I know the pain of losing a son but I am a woman, and I do understand. We as democrats must be able to discuss issues without getting upset or offended. The 2008 election will be the most important election of our lifetime. If we do not take the White House in 08' we are leaving the next generations in a shambles and certainly our party can see that calm and intelligence and common sense will win out at the end of the day.
We have the extreme right and the extreme left and they hurt our party. We will just have to agree to disagree, but there is a correct way to approach 50 states to get the job done. Why can't Cindy put on a dress, and step out to sit down in town hall meetings across the country with the soccer moms and rationally discuss her own experience and what lies ahead if we keep the GOP in power in Washington. Is that asking too much. Does she have to sit in on every single protest that certain political groups take her to, most of the time these groups are only using her to push their own agenda. I know the groups that she has worked with and I realize that she is hurt and naive about the process but she can make a huge difference with a little change. Mothers across the country whether they be far right or left will welcome her with open arms, but does it hurt to clean up a bit. We know she hurts, but it is time to show the class that she does have and sit down and rationally discuss these issues. I am not bashing her, what I feel is the truth.
Cindy Sheehan's protests, arrests, etc., did not win the mid terms, what won the midterms was Americans finally waking up to the fact that this appointed president has destroyed all relationships around the world, we have no allies. Thanks to mr. cowboy. Sure, she helped raise awareness, but the corruption being exposed and the elements of the war and this stubborn moron we have in the White House won the elections for us. We can win the White House but we have to be smart about it.
I am more concerned right now about the White House and keeping McCain out. He is a hawk who is just biting at the bit to send more of our children into battle. These websites like the Democratic Underground do nothing but undermine the Democratic Party. We have to think smart and know the issues. We must have talking points that are delivered daily to fight the right wing press as they try to spin our message into a negative. This is what is important. Again, I meant no harm about Cindy but I stand by what I said the extreme left and right hurt us, period.
I want to win. I will work for the Democratic Party and do all I can do. But, I will not scream my message, or participate in a sit in, I want to educate the voters, I want to make sure that every single vote counts and I want a paper trail. There are more talking points but this is the direction I must take.
Sorry for upsetting you. I meant no disrespect to Cindy.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." -- John Quincy Adams
winning vs. justice
I think most Democrats would agree that one of the biggest mistakes of the neocons is the desire to win regardless of the cost. We must not become neocons in our thirst for victory in 2008. In fact, I believe if all branches of government were controlled by
Democrats it would be just as destructive as the last four years of Republican rule have been.
We must stand up for justice. We must impeach Bush as a matter of justice, not of political expediency.
Don
What have the democrats done recently
I am a registered democrat, however when democrats continue to allow the politicians to forget who elected them and what is expected of them once they are elected we get what we have now, apologists for voting to support an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation, the trampling of constitutional civil rights, and continued economic favors to big business at the expense of working people.
I disagree with your premise that the left wing of the democratic party is the problem. The left wing is what demands the party remember its roots. The moderates are the party members who allow the war to continue, who allow the Bush administration to continue to actively attack the labor movement, to allow the rapid erosion of civil rights.
Until the democratic party takes strong action to make change, it remains part of the problem on why the American middle class is eroding while the super rich get richer, on why American service members continue to die in an illegal occupation of Iraq, and why Bush still feels comfortable rattling sabers at Iran, Syria, and North Korea.
As a party member, definitely in the left wing, I demand that the politians elected as democrats DO SOMETHING NOW to make change. So far I am still unconvinced that will happen.
I don't care how Cindi Sheehan dresses and think that is really a superficial issue in comparsion to demanding a end to the war now.
I'm sorry for your loss of your father. I am a veteran who served in Southeast Asia myself and the father of an active duty soldier who has already served one tour in the war zone and is on the list to go back and I am unwilling to see one more GI die for Bush's war. The politicians aren't doing enough to stop this cycle of death and destruction so it is up to the people to demand action and hold all politicians accountable regardless of party. No democrat gets a free ride.
The people must make it very clear to those elected this year that they were elected to make change including ending this war, if they don't do, they will be held accountable. Now we are holding Bush and Cheney accountable for their crimes by demanding impeachment which is required by the constitution when politicans violate the law and constitution of the United States.
Accountability not vengence is what impeachment is all about.
Well Spoken
I agree.
I don't think you should be
I don't think you should be calling Cindy Sheehan a crazy liberal. She is the mother of every veteran who wishes their brothers and sisters could come home.
If Nancy is going to suck up to the Republicans, she should be treated like one. She is not much better than the criminal she protects.
If you had a brother or sister, your mother or father, or son or daughter, DIE because of Bush's lie than you might be a crazy liberal too.
WHAT IS REALLY WRONG IS WHEN WE DECIDE THAT DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN COMES FIRST AND RIGHT AND WRONG COME SECOND.
Do you believe in justice? then serve justice - put impeachment back on the table.
If you don't believe in justice, then every criminal should be treated equal at least. Why should one be president and the rest go to jail.
IMPEACH BUSH - Because it's the right thing to do.
Pelosi as President....
Thanks Bill Harding, and all of you for giving your viewpoints. It appears that impeachment is MANDATORY! The question now is...how do we make it STICK !!??
Here is a link that shows a guideline of plans before W. took office through PNAC, it includes 911 also as the "New Pearl Harbor". This is proof of what a disastrous plan the Bush Cabal was following. Absolute Corruption.
http://www.ecapc.org/pnac.asp
Crimes?
Could somebody please tell me what crimes the presidnet committed? He was certainly wrong in invading Iraq but it seemed he went through it in a legal matter. If I am missing something, which I very well could be, I would like to know. Otherwise, I just assume we stay away from Impeachment and maintain our party's respect. We don't need to stoop to their lever.
Let's see -- where to
Let's see -- where to begin...?
1) Lying to and deceiving Congress about the need to invade a sovereign nation (deliberately "fixing" the intellegence: no WMD, no involvement in 9/11, no "yellow cake") in order to gain the necessary "legal power" to invade;
2) Illegal secret wiretapping of American citizens without court authorization;
3) Contravention of the Geneva Conventions, and American law, in authorizing torture, and denying habeus corpus to detainees;
4) Using illegal "signing statements" to ignore legislation Constitutionally passed by Congress; and,
5) Breaking his oath to "preserve and protect" the Constitution of the United States of America, as detailed above (an impeachable offense in, and by, itself).
There are most likely additional criminal acts committed by Dubya and his administration (see Abramoff, DeLay, etc.) and only thorough investigations by Congress will be able to determine the extent of his culpability.
Other than these crimes, he has mismanaged the environment, governed for his corporate backers -- instead of the People, and destroyed decades of US diplomatic progress around the world. In any other capacity, that would be called dereliction of duty, and misconduct (a synonym for "misdemeanors").
Unfortunately, the list does not stop here...
Haven't you heard, Mr. Bush
Haven't you heard, Mr. Bush lied - got a lot of people killed, I understand that's a crime.
All the details, just do a google search, you'll find it all, or just go to Afterdowningstreet.
As a matter of fact - here> http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/downloads/crisis/fullreport.pdf
Its a couple hundred, might take you awhile.