I could just about kill MoveOn - not literally, but I can tell you I quit MoveOn and will not contribute another dime unless they re-do their duplicitous poll by TOMORROW MORNING (3/23) at about 10:00 am.   My Rep's chief of staff called me today to prepare me for the fact that the vote on the Iraq Supplemental would not be what we have all been lobbying for for the last 3 months.  What he said was that the MoveOn poll was the tipping point for many Dems, that they didn't feel backed up by the "netroots progressives".

 What do YOU want to do about MoveOn?

The people we relied upon have let us down. The people we helped elect prefer to listen to war contractors, foreign governments, and Republicans instead of us. Who will be the first to say, "If I had known back in March 2007 what I know now, I would not have voted for the supplemental appropriation."

I was tricked into voting "Yes" by the poll, thinking I was just checking out the options - until the screen popped up and thanked me for voting. I can't imagine there weren't MANY others where the same thing happened for them. I emailed MOVE-ON to tell them my vote was inaccurately counted, but haven't heard anything personally or publicly.

I have notified MoveOn.org to kindly remove my name from their mailing list because of this. M. Shafer

I didn’t vote in their poll because I didn’t like the choices and think Move-on should be told about the shortcoming of their poll. That said I don’t think this should be made into what looks a lot like a power/financial struggle between progressive groups.

As for the issue addressed (or not addressed) in the poll: before the invasion of Iraq it was clear that the best our government could do was not invade. Unfortunately, the Bush administration didn't do what was best for the country. Now it is less clear what its best. What is clear is that it would be best if the Bush administration were removed from power as soon as possible. For this reason I think the focus should be on impeachment and consolidating the majority in the House and Senate. Trying to set time limits will probably not be effective and only gives the Republicans an excuse for why things are going from very bad to much worse.

To put it another way: First I don’t think it will be possible for Congress to enact a time schedule for withdrawal from Iraq. Second, if it were possible, I’m not convinced it would save either American or Iraqi lives. And, in the long run, when things in Iraq and the Middle East get worse – as I think is inevitable – this "meddling from Congress" will only give the Administration something to blame their failure on.

What the F? At this rate, the right wing will be back in charge by next election. Can we not, as progressives, liberals, or whatever the hell you want to identify as, have consensus? It is really screwed IF MoveOn did collude to put out disinformation to its own constituents. Damn, we do not need to be imploding like this. The Republicans would love nothing more than to see us unravel from within.

Then I see the following post, and my heart dropped to my feet. The following must have been written by an infiltrator from the right, because no democrat or progressive I know would use this language. The syntax alone left me with a headache. This kind of verbiage disturbs me deeply.

"Radical Ultra Left Democrats"

Submitted by fiddlestix on March 21, 2007 - 11:45pm.

"Its about time more sane democrats take control of our party from the radicals I read about in these pages. The Dennis Kucinich, Cindy Sheehan, Maxine Waters, Barbara Boxer, John Murtha are only encouraging the terrorists in Iraq. I want our troops out also.
The democratic tax hike. The economy is booming, tax income is highest it ever was, new investment is at an all time high, and unemployment is at an all time low. WHY DO YOU RADICALS WANT TOO RAISE TAXES ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?? Are you insane. DO you want to return to 7-8% unemployment and higher. Do you want to stifle growth in the economy. I remember the Carter years when mortgage rates were 16-17%. Get real or get out. You're going to cost the party all the gains achieved in 2006."

I don't know where this Fiddlestix is getting information, but it sounds more like Faux News than anything else. We don't have Bush Democrats. That is an oxymoron that my brain will not acknowledge.

Good luck to us, we'll need it. The future is going to be tough and I don't think soft America has the hide for what is coming. I know I wouldn't survive if the right has its way of domination. So let's not let them back in power. However, with leaders like Pelosi (I had so much hope for her) we seem to already have a bad leadership precedent being set.

Its as if the right has dirt on the democratic leadership, and threaten to use it against them everytime they start standing up to the bullies. Did anyone imagine last November 7 that by March 23 we would have this kind of bullcrap going on in Congress already. We want them to end the war, period >.<

When Bush finally leaves office, we will have had Bush's and Clinton's running this country for nearly a quarter century. No more Bush's, no more Clintons, but there is one legitimate leader who should rightfully be president, and that is Al Gore.

They have succeeded in bringing about infighting between two very strong groups to the detriment of both. Sounds like "Divide and Conquer" to me. We need to settle our differences now and move on to more important matters - impeachment, end the war, repeal the patriot act, etc.

to stop my monthly donation they take from my credit card, until they do answer questions from their members?

Anybody know?

pamberg2003@yahoo.com

Moveon Must Move on - or we should drop all support! Thay are as wimpy as most Democrats! We must stand up and take to the streets to wake them and the rest of Congress! Jerry

I have been critical of MoveOn's support of Nancy Pelosi from Day One, and have told them so. I have grown more and more disenchanted with the organization as the months have passed since the election. It's clear to anyone who pays attention that Pelosi's goal is to appease those in power, NOT end the war or make meaningful changes. That makes MoveOn's continued support of her actions inexcusable. This latest fiasco is just another step on the downward spiral.

This was sent to Eli Pariser and Nita Chaudhary. The address for Nita bounced, Eli is eli.pariser@moveon.org and you then have to fill out something to get past his spam filter.

Eli and Nita,

Goddamn it, you people are sabotaging the antiwar movement!

We are opposed to this Democratic Party sellout, and I question now your independence from the Democratic Party. You rigged the poll to get the results you wanted, supporting Pelosi, by giving no choice of only voting money to safely remove troops within 6 months (the Barbara Lee amendment). And now you send us this when many of us occupied Markey's office on Feb. 20 and 21 to get him to pledge to vote NO on the supplemental $100 billion for Iraq. Whatever good name MoveOn had in the past is now mud. Many like me will never give another dime to MoveOn.

Veterans For Peace, Military Families Speak Out, United For Justice with Peace, and other Boston area antiwar organizations are opposed to the so-called "Iraq Accountablility Act" which keeps the war going until Fall '08 so that Nancy Pelosi can try to get more Democrats elected to Congress.

MoveOn, which started as a good grassroots organization, should be ashamed of itself. Plus you make it next to impossible to contact anybody in authority at MoveOn. You will be left behind in the dustbin of history as we fight on to defund the war and end the carnage and you try to get more Democrats elected to Congress.

I am angry. And I am not the only one.

Nate Goldshlag
Co-Coordinator, Smedley D. Butler Brigade of Veterans For Peace

It looks like Code Pink stuck to their guns. According to the News Update from 'Citizens for Legitimate Government' they were doing what all of us should be doing. "Police tell anti-war protesters to take down 'Camp Pelosi' 22 Mar 2007 Anti-war protesters in their 11th day of a round-the-clock vigil in front of Rep. Nancy Pelosi's Pacific Heights home were ordered by San Francisco police Thursday night to remove protest signs, banners and canopies that adorned what they called Camp Pelosi." "Anti-war protesters arrested at Pelosi's office 22 Mar 2007 Four members of the anti-war group Code Pink were arrested outside the office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) Thursday afternoon, following an announcement that they would seek to take over the office."

I'm still looking for a way to be involved in making a difference in the world that isn't abusive of me. I voted NO in MoveOn's pole, but I also thought it was designed by a pr/marketing firm; not designed to enlighten the membership or to inform the organization on the will of its members. The reason for this is now all too apparent, Pelosi whipped MoveOn into line. I complained at Gotham City Council(Shoshannah) but the damage has been done and I feel misused, homeless again in a political sense. The Supplemental is useless and unenforceable. It abuses the language as badly as the German and American fascists ever did: "This will ensure that we're out by ...." actually means that "this will buy our presence at least until." (By then the regular appropriation ($650B? perhaps symbolically reduced by 0.75B to placate the peace fruit fringe)will have passed muster as a compromise measure. How long before even the rhetoric about representing the voters will to redress Constitutional abuses and end our conducting genocide in the middle east is twisted and co opted by those who have or those who want power? MoveOn deserves a spanking. I feel so disappointed, angry, distorted despite my objections into a shape that serves their interests, that misrepresents my interests. I am sick of the misuse of language too. Is there anyone who interprets our/my November vote as not meaning "get out of Iraq," and stay out of Iran, etc.? If there is, their wishful thinking is seriously distorting their view of reality. Yeah, we want change. We want our country back from the oil interests and war-toy interests and corporate interests, the plunderers of our power and treasure and truth. Women have always known we cannot live on lies forever.

Betrayal (or other synonym) is the only word to describe Move On's actions in their deceitful, dishonest "poll". They lost my support; I unsubscribed, told them why and will not donate another dime. This is a grassroots organization dependent on its members to survive. The best message we can send is to cancel membership, refuse to participate or donate until they come clean in a big, public way & let the policians and the public know the huge mistake they made.

After today I not only quit MoveOn but the Democratic Party...I'm fed up, done, sayonara! I'll probably go Green or just be an Independent. The Democrats have betrayed my trust that they would stop the war and make sweeping change...instead it's "politics as usual"! Well not from this ol' radical geezer. Not one more bit of support. Basta! Viva la Revolucion!

We Democrats have a history of putting ideological purity above getting things done. Bringing out the long knives against MoveOn isn't helping anyone - it's just fostering bad feelings among people that essentially think alike that need to work together.

Yes, we need to bring our service members home. As soon as possible. At the same time, we all know that an immediate withdrawal isn't going to happen. Skewering the people that are working for compromise doesn't move your agenda forward, it just makes all Democrats look bad. Impeachment, as delicious as it sounds, isn't going to happen. You're not going to get the votes you need for conviction in the Senate. Get real.

Let's try moving a little in the right direction and building momentum instead of taking shots at those making what progress is possible.

My choice is not to honor or trust or respect Moveon anymore. They ----ed up in a big way. They can no longer be trusted to speak for the grass roots in America. Especially, people of color should examine whatever Moveon says and does with two jaundiced eyes.

Gilberto