Holder Just Made Me a Promise
As Attorney General Eric Holder left an appropriations subcommittee hearing on Thursday I spoke loudly from the third row as he prepared to leave the room:
"We need a special prosecutor for torture, Mr. Attorney General. Americans like the rule of law. The rule of law for everybody."
He replied as he approached and walked by, surrounded by bodyguards:
"And you will be proud of your country."
I was joined by others in replying simultaneously:
"Yes, we want to be proud of our country. We're ready. No need to wait."
Holder knew exactly what it would take for me to be proud of my country, and he told me directly that I would be.
Will I? Time will tell.
Some friends from Code Pink and Veterans for Peace and I had held up signs during the hearing: "Torture Is Illegal", "Special Prosecutor", "Justice for ALL", "Are Laws for Everyone?", "Special Counsel for War Crimes", "No Torture", etc.
But I had come with a coalition of groups led by the ACLU in an attempt to present a petition to Holder asking for a special prosecutor.
Pre-hearing we presented the petition to an assistant attorney general who then sat in the front row with a few other DOJ staffers. He promised to hand Holder the petition, and I asked him again in the hallway afterwards, and he promised to hand it to him.
Here's the opening of the ACLU's press release:
"A broad coalition of advocacy groups today will deliver petitions containing a quarter million signatures to Attorney General Eric Holder demanding that he appoint an independent prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration’s use of torture on terrorism suspects. The petitions were gathered by the American Civil Liberties Union, MoveOn.org Political Action, the Center for Constitutional Rights, Firedoglake.com, Democrats.com and other advocacy groups. The petitions will be delivered during Holder’s testimony before a House Appropriations Subcommittee."
And here's what I said in that press release:
"David Swanson, Washington Director of Democrats.com: 'Torturing people to compel agreement with fictional justifications for war suggests that we have not advanced greatly during the past millennium. And yet I know that we have, and that we can prove it by enforcing our laws in the face of fear and misunderstanding. A delay cannot be justified by a lack of evidence (the evidence is overwhelming) or by a political calculation. Appointing an independent special counsel to enforce our laws would give a new basis for progress in our relations with the world, a rationale for improving our criminal code moving forward, and the necessary space for congress to properly pursue accountability and prevention of future abuses of power.'"
This was my blog of the hearing. A number of congress members said and asked very good things, but the questioning was not very pointed, and the answers were either vague or put matters off until June when task forces finish their work. (Do I have to wait until then to start being proud of my country?)
2:40 p.m. Rep David Obey opens with story of political prosecution in WI.
2:45 pm Rep Frank Wolf (R., Va.) talked about 9-11.
2:50 Holder says OPR report should be done "relatively soon."
2:55 Obey is asking about prosecution for torture team.
2:59 Holder says DOJ task forces on interrogations and detentions will report in July, but does not actually answer the question of whether there will be prosecutions.
3:01 Wolf is worried that enforcing the law might make employees in the future feel they had to be careful to obey laws. So, Wolf repeats the question: will you pursue the prosecutions? AND are there docs that show torturing saved lives?
3:02 Holder will not prosecute people who acted in good faith on justice dept memos, but claims to enforce the rule of law blah blah and MIGHT be open to prosecuting the people who wrote the memos. Holder has not seen and is unfamiliar with any memos that back up Cheney's claims but he hopes to make all OLC memos public. Wolf wants ALL memos, OLC and otherwise.
Let him have em!!! Here's how crazy Cheney's claim is.
3:09 hearing's being played live on MSNBC right now, and covered on CNN and Fox. Fattah is now asking about massive funding of prisons and pittance for re-entry programs, and about mortgage fraud.
3:10 Holder answers re mortgage fraud.
3:13 Asked again, Holder says he supports the Second Chance Act. He supports schools and parenting. (Not really his department?) He supports educating prisoners. (So why not fund it?)
Questioning drifting from topic of torture. I'm reading the news. NY Times has an op-ed from Roger Cohen, who wants immunity for torturers.
3:21 Schiff nails it. Holder said water boarding torture. Torture has occurred. Laws must be enforced.
3:25 Holder hems and haws.
3:25 Culverson wants to know if CIAers who did not act in good faith might be prosecuted. Holder says yes.
3:31 Serrano: if we do not prosecute torture we provide a recruiting tool to terrorists, and we leave people unable to travel outside the country for fear of arrest. But Serrano asks no question and moves on to immigrants issues.
3:40 Rep Ruppersberger asks about the torture again and Holder answers about his task forces through July again.
I just posted an excellent article the AG should read.
I'm going to turn this off and try to talk to Holder when he leaves.
More to come.
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Don't bring on the Special Prosecutor YET!
I watched Olbermann last night. A lawyer named Ms. De La Vega mentioned very important point was brought up. If a Special Prosecutor takes up the case, IT WILL DISAPPEAR FROM PUBLIC SCRUTINY. She gave examples like Scooter Libby's trial. Let it play out as it is. Then, after all the bad news is out in public, take them to task. Right now, as more and more NEGATIVE INFORMATION IS BEING AIRED, those who have committed these autrocities will be branded and shamed in public. It will probably destroy whatever careers they have, unless they are employed by right-wingnut institutions.
I, too, want the rule of law enforced. Ms.De La Vega made a very important point. I'm beginning to believe her statements are true.
Let's get all the information out. If it goes to a Special Prosecutor it will disappear as if it's in a Grand Jury. No news.
Bringing the crimes to light paints the conservanazis as the criminal bastards that they are.
GFY cheney is scared. cheney has been making public comments in order to try to protect himself. he's claimng that some of the information collected by the torturing of prisoners has stopped terrorist attacks. The reports, he claims, are classified. If you are anyone else tells the media about state secrets THAT ARE STILL CLASSIFIED, YOU ARE COMMITTING A CRIME. cheney is full of bu$hit! There are no SECRET documents to support his allegations. Nothing but cheney bu$hit. ;)
"When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis
WRONG!! rather, time to drop kick De La Vega
oh, for crying out loud, Libby was convicted. how much better does it get than that? the ONLY problem with the Libby trial was the AFTER conviction commutation, which precluded Fitzgerald from pressuring Libby to flip on Cheney and the rest.
and the ONLY people pressing now to NOT pursue a special prosecutor, which is what we wanted ALL along, the gold standard of dreams of accountability, are those who are only interested in their own personal media GRANDSTANDING.
yes, that's right, we would trade every personal TV appearance (like De La Vega's own on Olbermann), for ONE special prosecutor right now!!! we are not doing this for publicity value, this was, is, and always will be about one thing only, getting a REAL prosecutor on the case as SOON as possible, with the POWER to indict, and then to CONVICT the guilty.
who the hell cares if there are fewer news stories in the interim after we have ACCOMPLISHED the mission of getting that special prosecutor appointed? the news stories are not going to stop regardless, if anything they will intensify once it is clear a special prosecutor is in motion, and it is strategic lunacy to make news stories the goal of our activism.
if you were one of the monsters who committed all these war crimes, what would worry you more, being "shamed" in public, or facing the real possibility of life in prison? you know WE have executed people for the war crime of waterboarding. you do know that, don't you? don't you? for sociopaths like Bush and Cheney, who will be celebrated as heroes any time they step foot in a Fox TV studio, there will never be any shame, contrition or anything even remotely like it.
get all the information out? are you daft?? what the hell more do you want, as if the revelations of the just last week were not enough to convict ten presidents and vice presidents? you are sitting there, you are holding a royal flush, and STILL you are not sure about making your move??
so get a clue. we are close to WINNING a special prosecutor. that is NOT a hand we fold, with the danger of our momentum being diverted into some toothless commission, which is of course exactly the plan on the other side.
as long as De La Vega was supportive of impeachment we welcomed her voice. but of course impeachment did NOT happen because too many voices had too many lame excuses why it should be put off. this is exactly the SAME situation, and this time De La Vega is on 180 degrees the wrong side, ESPECIALLY with the statute of limitations ticking hard on some of the most serious of the torture allegations.
full speed ahead to a special prosecutor, and don't dare let up the pressure for an instant.
and another thing, the promise of Holder today, PLUS the price posted on the menu, will get you a sandwich at your typical fast food restaurant. remember the "promises" of Conyers to do something about impeachment. yeah, sure he's going to have a real impeachment hearing, any day now. sure he will. and anything he convenes now is equally suspect as a path to actual accountability.
in what court case recently (wiretapping, state secrets, abuse of detainees, etc.) has Holder NOT signed on wholesale to the most fascist postures of the Bush administration? just this week, the DC Appellate Circuit ruled AGAIN, at the urging of the "change we can believe in" administration that detainees were NOT even "persons".
so let us not be saps. victory is near. but ONLY if we remain focussed with our eyes on the ultimate prize, and we will settle for absolutely nothing less than . . . a special prosecutor NOW!!
I saw that interview as well
I agree with her too. I also found it interesting that they went to sere to learn these "techniques" and that sere describes them as illegal when using them to train our soldiers to endure them. an argument could be made that considering that sere itself uses the term illegal that the officials who went to them for information knew full well that these actions were not only illegal but also torture, couldn't that change the whole outlook on prosecutions by showing some premeditation on the part of administration officials who sought their "expertise" on these interrogation methods?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#30376985
Response
Response to Elizabeth de la Vega: Disagreement with a Friend and a Hero
By David Swanson
There are lots of supposed reasons not to appoint a special prosecutor. The first set of such supposed reasons to come from someone intelligent and well-informed with good intentions has come from Elizabeth de la Vega. Here is a response.
1. If we do not extend the statutes of limitations, the careful and considered delay could end up becoming immunity. Simply claiming that the clock doesn't start ticking until the last act of conspiracy to conceal does not do it, since half the legal experts like that reasoning and half do not and we would have to argue each case, including cases that do not clearly involve conspiracies to conceal. In fact, the most egregious crimes have involved open confessions from the highest officials.
2. The Senate as a whole will never ever approve any useful investigation except in committees, but it might convict following an impeachment that changes public awareness.
3. Congressional hearings produce relatively little.
4. Congress should extend the statutes of limitations, bust the media monopolies to produce more reporting, and reissue and enforce the outstanding subpoenas into which lots of careful work went over the past 2 years.
5. Leahy joined the DOJ in pushing a commission as a substitute, not as a first step, and anything like that begun before a special prosecutor is begun will be treated as a substitute.
6. Impeaching Bybee should begin at once.
7. A House select committee looking into restoring Congressional power and restricting presidential should begin at once or after a prosecution begins, but Conyers' or Leahy's proposal for a commission created by both houses will not go anywhere.
8. House and Senate committees should hold hearings, including to reissue all the outstanding subpeonas.
9. We should not let a hearing begin that can be seen as a substitute for enforcing laws, and there is no reason to delay enforcing laws -- certainly not a deficiency of evidence!
10. De la Vega knows the law and means well and I'm open to being convinced by her, but haven't been yet.
Author of the upcoming book "Daybreak: Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union" by Seven Stories Press.